F4U Corsairs at Midway

[minhow]

The F4U Corsair was in development since the late 30s, had it first flight in 1940, produced in 1942 but only entered in service in late 1942.

But what if the plane was developed and produced earlier, entering in service in 1942, with meaningful numbers during, at least during the Battle of Midway?

The plane was very advanced on its time, how would they fare versus the Japanese? How things would change?

 

[tomo pauk]

The plane was very advanced on its time, how would they fare versus the Japanese? How things would change?

Perhaps Yorktown lives?

 

[jlckansas]

They hadn't solved the carrier landing problems with it in 42. Having a squadron or two land based on Midway might make some sense. You would not have any of the later war experience with them so you might see them taking heavier casualties then later in the war when they knew how to fly them in combat.

 

[Admiral Jellicoe]

slightly facetiously I would say - give them to the RN earlier and get the USN to borrow Victorious for Midway with a deck of Corsairs. The RN was using them for carrier operations first and they proved a darn sight more safe than the seafire for landings

 

[GarethC]

Perhaps Red Parks lives.
If Midway has Corsairs, then VMF-221 has a performance advantage over Lt. Tomonaga's escorting A6Ms, and so should have far more of the two-dozen-ish F4Us successfully engage the attack squadrons, causing significantly higher losses.
However, after the first pass, to continue to engage the bombers will mean being sucked into a turning battle with the escorting fighters which is not playing to the Corsair's strength, to wit, having twice the horsepower of the Reisen, plus there will be some losses to defensive fire as well so we'd expect pretty heavy casualties amongst the Marine aviators anyway, particularly since IIRC half of them were fresh out of flight school compared with the veterans of KB.

 

[Sekhmet_D]

Perhaps Red Parks lives.
If Midway has Corsairs, then VMF-221 has a performance advantage over Lt. Tomonaga's escorting A6Ms, and so should have far more of the two-dozen-ish F4Us successfully engage the attack squadrons, causing significantly higher losses.
However, after the first pass, to continue to engage the bombers will mean being sucked into a turning battle with the escorting fighters which is not playing to the Corsair's strength, to wit, having twice the horsepower of the Reisen, plus there will be some losses to defensive fire as well so we'd expect pretty heavy casualties amongst the Marine aviators anyway, particularly since IIRC half of them were fresh out of flight school compared with the veterans of KB.

Early engagements between the Corsair and the A6M were actually quite close-run things. In fact the very first engagement between the two types - the infamous 'Saint Valentine's Day Massacre' of 1943 - saw nine Corsairs lost in exchange for one A6M. (The Japanese unit involved being led by notable ace and tactician Zenjiro Miyano doubtlessly had a lot to do with it.) As late as May 1943, we were still seeing battles where Corsair losses outnumbered A6M losses by two to one - A6Ms flown by veteran pilots still existed then, and remained a serious threat.

In June of 1942, even more of these veterans were around - the Kido Butai roster for the A6M pilots flying the Midway strike indicates the presence of at least ten pilots who were either existing aces, would be aces or experienced prewar officers/NCOs. The hypothetical Corsair versus A6M engagement over Midway isn't going to go swimmingly for the Americans, methinks.

 

[zoomar]

Early engagements between the Corsair and the A6M were actually quite close-run things. In fact the very first engagement between the two types - the infamous 'Saint Valentine's Day Massacre' of 1943 - saw nine Corsairs lost in exchange for one A6M. (The Japanese unit involved being led by notable ace and tactician Zenjiro Miyano doubtlessly had a lot to do with it.) As late as May 1943, we were still seeing battles where Corsair losses outnumbered A6M losses by two to one - A6Ms flown by veteran pilots still existed then, and remained a serious threat.

In June of 1942, even more of these veterans were around - the Kido Butai roster for the A6M pilots flying the Midway strike indicates the presence of at least ten pilots who were either existing aces, would be aces or experienced prewar officers/NCOs. The hypothetical Corsair versus A6M engagement over Midway isn't going to go swimmingly for the Americans, methinks.

Excellent interpretation. The early successes of IJN aircraft in action against Allied P-36 and P-40 fighters, Wildcats, Buffaloes, and Hurricanes had much less to do with the supposed superiority of the A6M Zero than the excellent training and battle experience of Japanese pilots flying Zeros. As Allied flyers became more experienced and better understood how to combat the exceptionally maneuverable Zero, things evened out. The availability of a squadron of Corsairs would not have made a significant difference in the naval action because they were not yet carrier authorized and would be based at Midway Atoll.

 

[Sekhmet_D]

Excellent interpretation. The early successes of IJN aircraft in action against Allied P-36 and P-40 fighters, Wildcats, Buffaloes, and Hurricanes had much less to do with the supposed superiority of the A6M Zero than the excellent training and battle experience of Japanese pilots flying Zeros.

Bit of both, I'd say? A well flown P-36, Hurricane or Buffalo would almost certainly still lose to a well flown A6M. At least five Battle of Britain veterans (including two aces), men who were definitely not wet behind the ears, went down to Kido Butai A6M pilots over Ceylon.

 

[minhow]

So its possible that the airplane couldn't change that much, despite being advanced, due crew experience?

 

[tomo pauk]

So its possible that the airplane couldn't change that much, despite being advanced, due crew experience?

Do we know the exchange (kill/loss) ratio between the F4F and Zero at Midway?
Also. how many IJN aircraft were downed by CAP around Yorktown?