There is a limit of 3 images per day per thread @Major Petrov - you need to be careful with your image postings.
28 Days Later - Death of a Nation
- Thread starter kspence92
- Start date
Sorry, I didn't knew about this. Next time I will be more careful.
@22000 Kevin and I had this discussion ironically in March 2022, after the OTL Russian invasion of Ukraine happened.
But in the context of a 2002-2003 AH, we all know that this is a different Ukraine and a different Russia. Ukraine in 2002-2003 was more or less leaning towards Moscow. No New Cold War would mean this is a much different geopolitical environment. Both the U.S. and Russia would not have money to repair all of Europe. Survivors in the wastelands of Eastern Europe such as those survivor communities in the Baltics, Ukraine, and Belarus would actually welcome the Russians as their protectors, saviors, and suppliers. Bush and his successors would not even mind, providing the Russians will stick to their promise that this is for humanitarian reasons rather than outright conquest to revive the Soviet Union.
Since there is no Iraq War, the courtship between the U.S. and rivals Russia and China as well as the international community sticks probably longer.
Remember this is the early 2000s. Russia is still reeling from the turbulent 90s after the fall of the Soviet Union, massive corruption in its government and military, and the Chechen Wars. Furthermore, Moscow is concerned on what will happen if Al-Qaeda or the Chechens get their hands on a sample of the Rage Virus. The terrorists are not only happy but they are salivating of the idea of using the RV as a weapon. It saves ammo, bombs, and personnel because all one needs to do is spray infected fluid on a crowd of people.
Plus, Putin here knows Russia's limits. They can provide much aid and security guarantees to the survivors of Eastern Europe but they know venturing beyond it is a waste of resources. Considering that Russia is still recovering from the turbulent 90s and a concurrent Second Chechen War. Russia will also be concerned of bandits roaming the wasteland that might terrorize their own border cities hence it's a win-win for both Russia and the survivors of Eastern Europe. A massive PR win for Moscow on the global stage and a win for the survivors since there is big military power protecting them from the bandits.
Thanks.
Firstly, I consider a Russian part of Britain as Russian Peacekeepering Area of Kosovo in 1999 from IRL. (Maybe this is not will even happen). This means that the presence of Russian peacekeepers here will be purely nominal due to the fact that Russia has other areas where it needs to use the army. For example, Chechnya. In fact, there is no Ichkeria as such, and experienced military formations are needed for counter-guerrilla warfare. In fact, Russia can send a small unit to England, or simply limit itself to sending military advisers, having decided that troops and aid are needed elsewhere on their own territory. However, this zone may simply not exist.
Considering that I am from Russia, I know what happened in the 2000s: the first period of these years was a gradual recovery from Yeltsin's presidency. One way or another, the huge military spending to stop the spread of the virus is clearly not going to do anything good for economy. Rather, Russia will focus on establishing a kind of "sanitary cordon" along the borders from the Baltic States to Ukraine, at most part of Poland with Moldova. The most realistic option is a cordon on the borders of the Baltic States, Ukraine and Belarus, since Russia is not eager to arrange a hike to the border of Spain - this is an unreasonable waste of money and time. In theory, Russia can send troops to all the countries of Eastern Europe, but first it will deal with the countries of the former USSR. Most realistic way - only former post-Soviet states and, maybe, Eastern Europe (however, Putin can decide that Russia couldn't bear Eastern Europe and concentrates only at the post-Soviet states).
Yes, terrorists will have to be dealt with and controlled so that they do not get that ill-fated virus, and Russia will recover somewhat more slowly from the 1990s, because the Iraq War and the spike in oil prices did not happen.
Last edited:
Good points.
I don't think the Russians will send a team to the UK unless the government-in-exile in Belfast, Glasgow, or Richmond approves of this. Of course, on humanitarian grounds, that can be considered.
I hope you also do a chapter on how Kaliningrad Oblast fell because the OP actually missed to mention it in the story.
Of course.
I think, Kaliningrad will be evacuated with news about infection in Germany, leaving only military personnel. The entire Kaliningrad Oblast, expect several port cities, will be evacuated, and this region will turned into Cadia on steroids: the entire Kaliningrad Oblast will be turned into giant minefield with defense lines, including artillery, bombers, chemical and nuclear weapons, machine gun nests, barbed wire, naval fleet and literally fortress cities.
The most of territory will be abandoned because of evacuation and minefields, which can be considered as fell. Only several port cities survive this.
The European Campaign will be correctly called "A Great Crusade For Resources", because Russia doesn't plan to occupy Europe. Instead, a recon and raid units will be used to get abandoned western weapons and technologies, alongside with resources. The main problem will be a logistic ones, which Petrov will describe in his memoirs. Nevertheless, Russia could succeed in this operation, fully or half of it.
Also, Russian military will temporarily seize a airfields, airbases, railway stations and sea ports for transportation of European resources in Russia via aircraft, trains, ships or trucks.
Also, Russian military will temporarily seize a airfields, airbases, railway stations and sea ports for transportation of European resources in Russia via aircraft, trains, ships or trucks.
How will NATO countries react to Russia getting hold of those abandoned F-16s, Typhoons, Tornadoes, Eurocopter Tiger attack helicopters, Leopard 2 MBTs, and Mader IFVs? I know Russia will take some to study to incorporate the optics, NVGs, and targeting systems and the others will be too far gone to be salvaged. But will the surviving governments actually demand these military assets to be returned?
This already happened in 2008, when Russia captured Humvee with US Equipment. When United States asked them to return it, Russia said: "We doesn't know location of it, perhaps it lost".
In current situation, nobody will know this because of chaos and anarchy, and NATO is dissolved. If they ask to return, Russia could blame the local marauders, former military personnel, which turned into warlords,and bandits for looting.
And Russia doesn't will openly go there: there's will be a "unknown armed groups without signs of national armed forces" (Aka Russian raid units)
Where did the Humvee come from? Even in 2022, Russia has a sample of a Bradley taken from Ukraine (of course, I will not go further into current pol).
NATO is essentially dissolved by the looks of it but not officially. After Brussels fell to the Ragers, I'd assume NATO relocated their headquarters to either Oslo or Barcelona way ahead of time.
But yeah you are right, those surviving European governments have more to worry about such as long-term repair and preparation than captured military equipment.
Ah just like Little Green Men? I disagree that Putin would want open start tensions with the West considering a big outbreak brought Europe to its knees. If Putin wants Russia to look like the good guy especially with the PR win the humanitarian assistance it has provided to the remnants of Eastern Europe, a New Cold War would not be in his interest.
Not quite. Little Green Men was a regular Russian soldiers in Russian uniform without insignia and nationality. The situation is different here: Russia does not need Europe, and it is simply not going to establish a friendly regime. She needs resources and technology to study. But the reconnaissance and raid groups are consists by GRU and VDV Spetsnaz commandos, who are dressed and armed, taught to speak on European languages so as to blend in with the local environment as much as possible, while not arousing suspicion - a safety net in case of unexpected circumstances. And Putin is not going to "bring Europe to its knees." What is the point if Europe is dead, and even its conquest is a meaningless idea? It is much easier to take at least some of the technologies and resources.
About Humvee:
On August 18, 2008, five M1151 and M1152 armored vehicles were stopped by Russian military personnel near the port of Poti. There were 20 armed Georgian border police officers in four cars, who reported that they "came to the port to pick up containers with humanitarian aid from the United States." The cars were seized because they contained Kalashnikov assault rifles belonging to the Georgian Border Police and other weapons. According to eyewitnesses, the cars were almost new — 2007 year of manufacture, no more than 400 km on the odometer meter, with stickers "US Property". The vehicles belonged to the US Marine Corps, and two shipping containers with military equipment of the US armed forces were seized along with them in the port.
The United States has repeatedly demanded that Russia return the equipment:
Already on August 19, 2008, the United States called on Russia to "return American military equipment". On that day, White House spokesman Gordon Jondro demanded the return of the equipment.
On August 21-22, 2008, Pentagon spokesman Brian Whitman and State Department spokesman Robert Wood demanded the return of the equipment.
On August 27, 2008, at a meeting with reporters, the commander of the US Marine Corps, General James Conway, stated that four Hummer vehicles were conventional and one armored. He also said that "none of the HMMWVs had anything like secret satellite communications equipment; there was no radio at all, there was only standard radio equipment." Pentagon spokesman Brian Whitman said that in the port of Poti, "the Russian military opened two large cargo containers" and "pocketed their contents." According to Whitman, one of the containers belonged to the Marines (as well as five Humvee cars), but he does not know who owned the second container. According to him, the equipment, which is of high value for intelligence, was not compromised, but he does not fully know what exactly was placed at the disposal of the Russian troops: "We cannot say what was in the containers, and we have not yet completed the assessment, but none of them contained secret items".
In early October 2008, Sean McCormack, the official representative of the US State Department, made a statement that Russia had not returned the Humvees.
The return of the US equipment was refused. Representatives of the General Staff of the Russian Federation linked the Americans' concern about the fate of vehicles with "the presence of certain equipment in these vehicles" (a system for accurately decoding the GPS satellite navigation signal, a system for recognizing "friend or foe", means of closed radio communication and intelligence)
W.House: Russia needs to return any U.S. equipment
jp.reuters.com
Last edited:
The maximum that is planned is the taking (partial or complete) of resources and military equipment for study. Moreover, until about 2008, there will be no final stabilization, when European governments will have an approximate understanding of the situation. And given the complete anarchy and broken communications, as well as crumpled reports, it will be unrealistic to find out who did this, especially when the GRU will cover all traces. Accusing Russia without evidence would be an extremely stupid idea.
Oh that's rather a shiny HMMWV the Russians captured for Georgia. In relation to the topic, if the Russians are studying those armor and radio components of that Humvee, then I'd see the Russians do the same for the abandoned NATO equipment. Maybe the Russians too will obtain abandoned Soviet hardware from its former Soviet republics to add to its fleet. Or give it as surplus to the security forces of the surviving communities in Eastern Europe.
I agree it would be a stupid idea at all. Having a fuzz over military equipment. The hope for the NATO remnant to stabilize the survivors of Europe lies on Russia itself. NATO and the West would welcome it.
In fact, yes: NATO equipment will be studied, and some Soviet weapons and equipment will be withdrawn from European countries, some will be given to local defense forces. Perhaps the same Polish MiG-29 and T-72 in an export modification can be partially exported to Russia, and some of them can be issued, for example, to the Polish Defense Forces - the remnants of the Polish armed forces, which Russia can support militarily, like other European countries. However, if the United States does not like that Russia has gone there, then support will be limited to airstrikes on bandits, looters, local warlords and their bases, alongside with probably Spetsnaz raids (Maybe).
In fact, technology is generally an insignificant thing against the background of devastation, which will be the last thing to worry about. The United States and the remnants of NATO will not mind if Russia gradually restores Europe. However, it will be too expensive, and for now they will be limited first to the post-Soviet countries, and then to Eastern Europe. In Western Europe, Russia will be able, by virtue of its capabilities, to control only port cities, strategically important facilities, nuclear power plants and the like, as well as cities within the radius of these facilities, but even so it will be a good PR victory for Russia, and many will understand why Russia is doing this in Europe - humanitarian operation, lack of resources and money, but European countries will be quite happy that their important facilities are somehow protected and restored.
(Does not apply to the frame of the universe, purely a question of "What if")
I can still imagine if Russia from Death of Nation would have found the world of Arknights and heard about the infected. Petrov's and other Russians first reaction would be something like this:
"Is there a Rage Virus there too?!"
And most likely, the city with infected oripathy would have been bombed to such a state until there was nothing left, or chemical munitions with nerve gas, artillery and aviation would have been used, because, you know, infected in the Death of Nation universe means those infected with the Rage Virus, which has already shown its destructive power, and no one wants to repeat this a second time at all. The locals there will be just shocked, especially Kashchey. However, later they will realize that there is no virus here, but for the first time there will be about such a reaction.
I can still imagine if Russia from Death of Nation would have found the world of Arknights and heard about the infected. Petrov's and other Russians first reaction would be something like this:
"Is there a Rage Virus there too?!"
And most likely, the city with infected oripathy would have been bombed to such a state until there was nothing left, or chemical munitions with nerve gas, artillery and aviation would have been used, because, you know, infected in the Death of Nation universe means those infected with the Rage Virus, which has already shown its destructive power, and no one wants to repeat this a second time at all. The locals there will be just shocked, especially Kashchey. However, later they will realize that there is no virus here, but for the first time there will be about such a reaction.
Last edited:
In Kaliningrad and on the borders of Russia, Russian Federation will be literally cosplaying European Contenintal Alliance from The Rise of The Reds (modification on C&C Zero Hour) on steroids - a entire border and Kaliningrad Oblast will be more militirazed than even North Korean border with South or DMZ.
The Russian military understood that they would not hold the whole of Kaliningrad, and sooner or later the infected would break through the border outposts and border lines of defense, which they decided to evacuate the entire population from Kaliningrad Oblast and military bases to the defensive lines, and the rest of Kaliningrad was mined with mines and declared as free-fire zone.
This is a map of defensive lines of Kaliningrad:
Orange - first defensive line. The Russian military did not really expect her to last long, so they assigned her the task of delaying the advance of the infected as much as possible, creating a number of reserve defensive areas there, as well as minefields. In case of breaktrough - forces retreat to the several reserve lines, than to the second one and detonating multiple nuclear warheads via airburst nuclear explosion on the largest concentrations of infected people, simultaneously releasing chemical weapons into the territory that the infected broke through.
Red - second defensive line. The most fortified line in the world, surpassing even the Maginot line, Mannerheim line and the demilitarized zone in Korea, along with the Berlin Wall, which can only be compared with the Russian border. There were many defensive lines and minefields, and cities turned into fortresses and fortified areas capable of defending themselves for months or even years with proper supplies and ammunition, ammunition and food supplies were created in case of complete encirclement. Every house became a fortress, every block became a fortified area, packed with machine guns, mines and gas sprayers.
Green - third defensive line. It was created in case of a breakthrough of the second defensive line. It is fortified even more strongly than the second one, and even has nuclear weapons in case the second defensive line is breached.
Blue - fourth defensive line. The last line of defense, which represents Cadia itself in miniature inside Cadia: the defensive line has the highest density of mines, artillery, machine-gun emplacements and armored vehicles per square meter, and in cities these indicators exceed any values.
The bridge to Baltiysk was blown up, like a other bridges outside the lines of defense to slow down the advance of the infected, and the Curonian Spit was completely mined, and forests in Curonian Spit were cut down or burned for a better view of the territory.
The Russian military understood that they would not hold the whole of Kaliningrad, and sooner or later the infected would break through the border outposts and border lines of defense, which they decided to evacuate the entire population from Kaliningrad Oblast and military bases to the defensive lines, and the rest of Kaliningrad was mined with mines and declared as free-fire zone.
This is a map of defensive lines of Kaliningrad:
Orange - first defensive line. The Russian military did not really expect her to last long, so they assigned her the task of delaying the advance of the infected as much as possible, creating a number of reserve defensive areas there, as well as minefields. In case of breaktrough - forces retreat to the several reserve lines, than to the second one and detonating multiple nuclear warheads via airburst nuclear explosion on the largest concentrations of infected people, simultaneously releasing chemical weapons into the territory that the infected broke through.
Red - second defensive line. The most fortified line in the world, surpassing even the Maginot line, Mannerheim line and the demilitarized zone in Korea, along with the Berlin Wall, which can only be compared with the Russian border. There were many defensive lines and minefields, and cities turned into fortresses and fortified areas capable of defending themselves for months or even years with proper supplies and ammunition, ammunition and food supplies were created in case of complete encirclement. Every house became a fortress, every block became a fortified area, packed with machine guns, mines and gas sprayers.
Green - third defensive line. It was created in case of a breakthrough of the second defensive line. It is fortified even more strongly than the second one, and even has nuclear weapons in case the second defensive line is breached.
Blue - fourth defensive line. The last line of defense, which represents Cadia itself in miniature inside Cadia: the defensive line has the highest density of mines, artillery, machine-gun emplacements and armored vehicles per square meter, and in cities these indicators exceed any values.
The bridge to Baltiysk was blown up, like a other bridges outside the lines of defense to slow down the advance of the infected, and the Curonian Spit was completely mined, and forests in Curonian Spit were cut down or burned for a better view of the territory.
Last edited:
I will mention that Russia will not be the only nation sending its troops into the ruins of Europe, the US will probably launch a few of its own Black Ops operations into the ruins of Europe, either evacuating or destroying some of the sensitive US secrets that were left behind in their embassies and military bases, things such as classified documents and military equipment that were abandoned during the second outbreak will likely end up being shredded, being set on fire or be booby trapped.
The US will probably want to keep the publicity of these operations to a mimimum, after the whole fiasco in the Isle of Dogs and the international embarrassment of being partly responsible for spreading the virus to continental Europe.
The US will probably want to keep the publicity of these operations to a mimimum, after the whole fiasco in the Isle of Dogs and the international embarrassment of being partly responsible for spreading the virus to continental Europe.
I think that's about how it will be, and Russia will not interfere with the United States in their operation. It is the same with Russian ones, expept military equipment - there's will be a fighting of American and Russian commandos against each other.
Last edited: