List of Alternate Monarchs and Aristocratic Lineage II

ordinarylittleme · 2024-05-07T10:32:20-0400

Edward VI dies of sweat in 1551.

Mary I, Queen of England (1516-1558) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1558)

1) Katherine (1553-1603) m. a) Sebastian I, King of Portugal (1554-1578), b) Duarte II, King of Portugal (1541-1586)
2) Charles II, King of England (1554-1611) m. a) Anna, Archduchess of Austria (1549-1580), b) Penelope Devereux (1563-1607)
-------
Philip II, King of Spain (1527-1598) m. Elizabeth Tudor (1533-1603)
1) Isabel (1553-1609) m. Henry III, King of France (1551-1589)
2) Anna (1555-1605) m. Ferdinand II, Holy Roman Emperor (1551-1612) [1]
3) Philip III, King of Spain (1558-1622) m. a) Elisabeth, Archduchess of Austria (1554-1592), b) Eleanor, Archduchess of Austria (1582-1620)
4) John (1560-1620) never married, grand master of teutonic order
5) Joanna (1563-1617) m. Charles Emmanuel I, Duke of Savoy (1562-1630)
6) Margarita (1566-1633) m. James VI, King of Scotland (1566-1625)

[1] Son of Maximilian II and Maria.

Dragonboy · 2024-05-07T10:36:48-0400

ordinarylittleme said:
Edward VI dies of sweat in 1551.

Mary I, Queen of England (1516-1558) m. Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor (1500-1558)

1) Katherine (1553-1603) m. a) Sebastian I, King of Portugal (1554-1578), b) Duarte II, King of Portugal (1541-1586)
2) Charles II, King of England (1554-1611) m. a) Anna, Archduchess of Austria (1549-1580), b) Penelope Devereux (1563-1607)
-------
Philip II, King of Spain (1527-1598) m. Elizabeth Tudor (1533-1603)
1) Isabel (1553-1609) m. Henry III, King of France (1551-1589)
2) Anna (1555-1605) m. Ferdinand II, Holy Roman Emperor (1551-1612) [1]
3) Philip III, King of Spain (1558-1622) m. a) Elisabeth, Archduchess of Austria (1554-1592), b) Eleanor, Archduchess of Austria (1582-1620)
4) John (1560-1620) never married, grand master of teutonic order
5) Joanna (1563-1617) m. Charles Emmanuel I, Duke of Savoy (1562-1630)
6) Margarita (1566-1633) m. James VI, King of Scotland (1566-1625)

[1] Son of Maximilian II and Maria.

Did charles II also became Lord of the netherlands?

isabella · 2024-05-07T10:54:44-0400

Jan Olbracht said:
Emperors Charles V and Ferdinand I also had sons named John

One ruled Spain and had an Iberian wife, the other was raised in Spain…

eliamartin65 · 2024-05-07T10:58:53-0400

isabella said:
One ruled Spain and had an Iberian wife, the other was raised in Spain…

Exactly. No way a 100% Austrian Habsburg would name a son John (even if Friedrich III had a short-lived son by that name).

isabella · 2024-05-07T11:19:02-0400

eliamartin65 said:
Exactly. No way a 100% Austrian Habsburg would name a son John (even if Friedrich III had a short-lived son by that name).

Frederick III also had an Iberian wife, who could have been the one to name her last child

eliamartin65 · 2024-05-07T11:19:54-0400

isabella said:
Frederick III also had an Iberian wife, who could have been the one to name her last child

Oh, damm, I forgot about Empress Eleanor. Good point.

ordinarylittleme · 2024-05-07T11:36:21-0400

Dragonboy said:
Did charles II also became Lord of the netherlands?

I suppose he would be? I'm not sure, since he left it for Philip's issue IOTL. @isabella @Kellan Sullivan

BoleynBuff · 2024-05-07T11:41:54-0400

ordinarylittleme said:
I suppose he would be? I'm not sure, since he left it for Philip's issue IOTL. @isabella @Kellan Sullivan

If Charles weds Mary instead, their son will get it.

Kellan Sullivan · 2024-05-07T11:42:03-0400

ordinarylittleme said:
I suppose he would be? I'm not sure, since he left it for Philip's issue IOTL. @isabella @Kellan Sullivan

Karl only earmarked it for Felipe when the marriage to Mary came up. If Karl himself marries Mary, their kid will get it

ordinarylittleme · 2024-05-07T11:46:06-0400

Kellan Sullivan said:
Karl only earmarked it for Felipe when the marriage to Mary came up. If Karl himself marries Mary, their kid will get it

Right, so Charles II of England is whatever number of the Netherlands? Titles are not my strong suit, I have to confess

Dragonboy · 2024-05-07T11:51:26-0400

ordinarylittleme said:
Right, so Charles II of England is whatever number of the Netherlands? Titles are not my strong suit, I have to confess

Charles III

isabella · 2024-05-07T11:57:11-0400

Kellan Sullivan said:
Karl only earmarked it for Felipe when the marriage to Mary came up. If Karl himself marries Mary, their kid will get it

Exactly. But I would say who if Charles has another surviving legitimate son that boy would inherit Netherlands instead of Philip

Cate13 · 2024-05-07T11:58:40-0400

Red Rose and White

Catherine of Valois, born 1401, died 1437, married a) Henry V, King of England, born 1386, died 1422; b) Owen Tudor, born 1400, died 1466

With King Henry

Henry VI, King of England, born 1421, died 1481, married Margaret of Anjou, born 1430

Catherine of Lancaster, Queen of England, born 1449 married Edward of York, King of England, born 1442

Margaret of England, born 1466 married Francis Phoebus of Navarre, King of Navarre, born 1467, died 1501

Henry of Wales, Prince of Wales, born 1470, died 1495, married Catherine of Navarre, born 1468, died 1534, without issue

Cecily of England, born 1472 married John of Burgundy, Duke of Burgundy[1], born 1470

Edward V, King of England, born 1475, died 1541, married Anne of Brittany, Duchess of Brittany, born 1477, died 1540

Joan of England, born 1478, died 1480

Matilda of England, born 1480, died 1515, married James IV, King of Scotland, born 1473

Richard of England, Duke of Bedford, born 1482 married Eleanor Tudor, Countess of Pembroke and Wiltshire, born 1485

Charles of England, born 1484, died 1484

With Sir Owen

Edmund Tudor, Earl of Richmond, born 1430, died 1489, married Margaret Beaufort, born 1443, died

Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond [2], born 1462, died 1540, married Catherine of Navarre, born 1468, died 1534

Margaret Tudor, born 1465, died 1527, married John d'Albret, Lord of Albret, Count of Graves, Périgord, and Castres, born 1469

Owen Tudor, Earl of Norfolk, born 1468, died 1550, married Anne de Mowbray, 8th Countess of Norfolk, born 1472, died 1539

Catherine Tudor, born 1473, died 1507, married John Holland, Duke of Exeter[3], born 1469, died 1536

Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, born 1431, died 1493, married Joan Butler, Countess of Wiltshire [4], born 1449

Eleanor Tudor, Countess of Pembroke and Wiltshire, born 1485 married Richard of England, Duke of Bedford, born 1482

Margaret Tudor,[5] born 1437, died 1482, married Edmund of York, Earl of Rutland, born 1443, died 1479

Richard of York, Earl of Rutland, born 1459, died 1493, married Anne Neville, Countess of Salisbury, born 1456, died 1508

Catherine of York, born 1464

Edmund of York, born 1472

[1] ATL son of Charles the Bold and Marie, Duchess of Lorraine (genderswapped René II, Duke of Lorraine with no surviving younger brothers)

[2] Without a war, there is less pressure and stakes and so Edmund waits to bed his wife for a few years. And this ATL Henry Tudor is a one suave dude, seducing his cousin’s widow and talking everyone out of being mad.

[3] No war of the roses, Anne of York and Henry Duke of Exeter remain married and have one more child

[4] ATL daughter of James Butler, 5th Earl of Ormond, Earl of Wiltshire and his first wife Avice Stafford (1423-1457), daughter and heiress of Sir Richard Stafford by Maud Lovell, daughter and heiress of Robert Lovell, esquire. Since she was his only child when he was made Earl of Wiltshire, the Earldom was made inheritable by heirs female. The Ormond Earldom passed to her Uncle John Butler.

[5] With much less political turmoil, Margaret does’t feel the need to retreat to a nunnery and is wed to Edmund of York to strength ties between the factions.

eliamartin65 · 2024-05-07T11:59:55-0400

Cate13 said:
Red Rose and White

Catherine of Valois, born 1401, died 1437, married a) Henry V, King of England, born 1386, died 1422; b) Owen Tudor, born 1400, died 1461

With King Henry

Henry VI, King of England, born 1421, died 1481, married Margaret of Anjou, born 1430

Catherine of Lancaster, Queen of England, born 1449 married Edward of York, King of England, born 1442

Margaret of England, born 1466 married Francis Phoebus of Navarre, King of Navarre, born 1467, died 1501

Henry of Wales, Prince of Wales, born 1470, died 1495, married Catherine of Navarre, born 1468, died 1534, without issue

Cecily of England, born 1472 married John of Burgundy, Duke of Burgundy[1], born 1470

Edward V, King of England, born 1475, died 1541, married Anne of Brittany, Duchess of Brittany, born 1477, died 1540

Joan of England, born 1478, died 1480

Matilda of England, born 1480, died 1515, married James IV, King of Scotland, born 1473

Richard of England, Duke of Bedford, born 1482 married Eleanor Tudor, Countess of Pembroke and Wiltshire, born 1485

Charles of England, born 1484, died 1484

With Sir Owen

Edmund Tudor, Earl of Richmond, born 1430, died 1489, married Margaret Beaufort, born 1443, died

Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond [2], born 1462, died 1540, married Catherine of Navarre, born 1468, died 1534

Margaret Tudor, born 1465, died 1527, married John d'Albret, Lord of Albret, Count of Graves, Périgord, and Castres, born 1440

Owen Tudor, Earl of Norfolk, born 1468, died 1550, married Anne de Mowbray, 8th Countess of Norfolk, born 1472, died 1539

Catherine Tudor, born 1473, died 1507, married John Holland, Duke of Exeter[3], born 1469, died 1536

Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, born 1431, died 1493, married Joan Butler, Countess of Wiltshire [4], born 1449

Eleanor Tudor, Countess of Pembroke and Wiltshire, born 1485 married Richard of England, Duke of Bedford, born 1482

Margaret Tudor,[5] born 1437, died 1482, married Edmund of York, Earl of Rutland, born 1443, died 1479

Richard of York, Earl of Rutland, born 1459, died 1493, married Anne Neville, Countess of Salisbury, born 1456, died 1508

Catherine of York, born 1464

Edmund of York, born 1472

[1] ATL son of Charles the Bold and Marie, Duchess of Lorraine (genderswapped René II, Duke of Lorraine with no surviving younger brothers)

[2] Without a war, there is less pressure and stakes and so Edmund waits to bed his wife for a few years. And this ATL Henry Tudor is a one suave dude, seducing his cousin’s widow and talking everyone out of being mad.

[3] No war of the roses, Anne of York and Henry Duke of Exeter remain married and have one more child

[4] ATL daughter of James Butler, 5th Earl of Ormond, Earl of Wiltshire and his first wife Avice Stafford (1423-1457), daughter and heiress of Sir Richard Stafford by Maud Lovell, daughter and heiress of Robert Lovell, esquire. Since she was his only child when he was made Earl of Wiltshire, the Earldom was made inheritable by heirs female. The Ormond Earldom passed to her Uncle John Butler.

[5] With much less political turmoil, Margaret does’t feel the need to retreat to a nunnery and is wed to Edmund of York to strength ties between the factions.

I like this one

Dragonboy · 2024-05-07T12:13:34-0400

Cate13 said:
Red Rose and White

Catherine of Valois, born 1401, died 1437, married a) Henry V, King of England, born 1386, died 1422; b) Owen Tudor, born 1400, died 1461

With King Henry

Henry VI, King of England, born 1421, died 1481, married Margaret of Anjou, born 1430

Catherine of Lancaster, Queen of England, born 1449 married Edward of York, King of England, born 1442

Margaret of England, born 1466 married Francis Phoebus of Navarre, King of Navarre, born 1467, died 1501

Henry of Wales, Prince of Wales, born 1470, died 1495, married Catherine of Navarre, born 1468, died 1534, without issue

Cecily of England, born 1472 married John of Burgundy, Duke of Burgundy[1], born 1470

Edward V, King of England, born 1475, died 1541, married Anne of Brittany, Duchess of Brittany, born 1477, died 1540

Joan of England, born 1478, died 1480

Matilda of England, born 1480, died 1515, married James IV, King of Scotland, born 1473

Richard of England, Duke of Bedford, born 1482 married Eleanor Tudor, Countess of Pembroke and Wiltshire, born 1485

Charles of England, born 1484, died 1484

With Sir Owen

Edmund Tudor, Earl of Richmond, born 1430, died 1489, married Margaret Beaufort, born 1443, died

Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond [2], born 1462, died 1540, married Catherine of Navarre, born 1468, died 1534

Margaret Tudor, born 1465, died 1527, married John d'Albret, Lord of Albret, Count of Graves, Périgord, and Castres, born 1440

Owen Tudor, Earl of Norfolk, born 1468, died 1550, married Anne de Mowbray, 8th Countess of Norfolk, born 1472, died 1539

Catherine Tudor, born 1473, died 1507, married John Holland, Duke of Exeter[3], born 1469, died 1536

Jasper Tudor, Earl of Pembroke, born 1431, died 1493, married Joan Butler, Countess of Wiltshire [4], born 1449

Eleanor Tudor, Countess of Pembroke and Wiltshire, born 1485 married Richard of England, Duke of Bedford, born 1482

Margaret Tudor,[5] born 1437, died 1482, married Edmund of York, Earl of Rutland, born 1443, died 1479

Richard of York, Earl of Rutland, born 1459, died 1493, married Anne Neville, Countess of Salisbury, born 1456, died 1508

Catherine of York, born 1464

Edmund of York, born 1472

[1] ATL son of Charles the Bold and Marie, Duchess of Lorraine (genderswapped René II, Duke of Lorraine with no surviving younger brothers)

[2] Without a war, there is less pressure and stakes and so Edmund waits to bed his wife for a few years. And this ATL Henry Tudor is a one suave dude, seducing his cousin’s widow and talking everyone out of being mad.

[3] No war of the roses, Anne of York and Henry Duke of Exeter remain married and have one more child

[4] ATL daughter of James Butler, 5th Earl of Ormond, Earl of Wiltshire and his first wife Avice Stafford (1423-1457), daughter and heiress of Sir Richard Stafford by Maud Lovell, daughter and heiress of Robert Lovell, esquire. Since she was his only child when he was made Earl of Wiltshire, the Earldom was made inheritable by heirs female. The Ormond Earldom passed to her Uncle John Butler.

[5] With much less political turmoil, Margaret does’t feel the need to retreat to a nunnery and is wed to Edmund of York to strength ties between the factions.

Amazing work

ordinarylittleme · 2024-05-07T12:59:43-0400

Cate13 said:
Owen Tudor, born 1400, died 1461

Owen won't be executed here though, will he?

vandevere · 2024-05-07T13:30:27-0400

ordinarylittleme said:
Owen won't be executed here though, will he?

Looks like the Wars of the Roses might be averted here, so yes, he should live longer...

Cate13 · 2024-05-07T14:04:28-0400

ordinarylittleme said:
Owen won't be executed here though, will he?

vandevere said:
Looks like the Wars of the Roses might be averted here, so yes, he should live longer...

Good point! I'll change it. Though he was already in his 60s, so he won't live much longer than that.

Salma Amer · 2024-05-08T03:06:55-0400

John V, Count of Armagnac (b.1420-.1473) m Catherine de Bourbon-Vendôme (b.1425-.1461)

John VI, Count of Armagnac (b. 1446-1501) m Jeanne de Foix (d. 1499)

John VII, Count of Foix (b.1471-.1514) m Catherine I of Navarre (b.1468-.1518)

Anne (b.1491-.1542) ,nun

Magdalena (b.1493-.1531) ,nun

François II, King of Navarre, Count of Armagnac , Count of Foix and Bigorre, ect (b.1496-.1556) m

Catherine(b.1500-.1541) m Guy XVI de Laval(b.1476-.1531) as second wife with issues with issues

Henry (b.1502-.1503)

Joanna (b.1506-.1561) m James V of Scotland (b. 1507-1551) with issues

Isabella (b.1513-.1581) m René I, Viscount of Rohan (b.1516-.1552) with issues