1862, by Robert Conroy

1862
By Robert Conroy
ISBN 978-0345482372
One star out of five.
Pros: Not Stars and Stripes Forever.
Cons: Too much like Stars and Stripes Forever.

Some editors say you can throw out an author's first book; it usually takes an author until their second book to grasp all the elements of storytelling and making a plot interesting for a reader. Unfortunately, 1862 is behind the curve. As Robert Conroy's second alternate history book, I had hopes this would be better than 1901, his first published work. Unfortunately, it's not. 1862 repeats the same flaws of 1901 by using flat characters, cracker-thin heroic figures, and poor research, then aggravates them by setting the story in a far less unique setting than 1901. His first story at least had the virtue of having not been done since the early 20th century; this doesn't even have that.

1862 is yet another Trent War book, and like the Stars and Stripes Forever series, it's an utter Ameriwank that ignores the facts on the ground in order to cast a scenario that has the United States victorious over Britain, France, and the Confederate States all together, thus undoubtedly setting the stage for a glorious, happy, vanilla American empire.

The story is told through a series of historical characters, such as Lord Palmerston and Winfield Scott, and one ahistorical character, Nathan Hunter, an aide to Scott. The historical characters are all stereotypes -- Scott as a heroic leader, Palmerston as an evil, conniving machinator, and Lincoln as the gallant man shouldering the burdens of his country. Never mind the fact that none of these men filled those roles in reality. Hunter is, of course, an all-American boy who fought the Indians in the west, ran into a bit of disgrace, and is now available to serve Scott, who conveniently puts him right at the scene of every major battle in the war but still leaves him time for a trite romance.

I won't go into much detail about the fighting depicted in this story -- it's dull and unrealistic, without even the over-the-top fun absurdity that the Stars and Stripes Forever series had. Instead, this story is just as absurd, but tries to play itself straight, and the effect is utter failure. The United States in 1862 was in no position to fight the Confederate States and the world's two great powers: France and Britain. Any attempt to do so would have resulted in catastrophe. Britain alone outweighed the United States militarily, diplomatically, industrially, and economically. And that's without the Union rent by secession and France thrown into the mix.

If you want a realistic Trent War scenario, read the first scenario in the anthology Dixie Victorious, edited by Peter Tsouras. If you want a fun, over-the-top one, read the Stars and Stripes Forever series. But as fish nor fowl, don't read 1862, which tries for both and instead falls short of each.
 

67th Tigers

Banned
I can pick quite a few holes in the first chapter of Dixie Victorious, but at least some research was done. Well, he appears to at least have read Bourne's "Great Britain and the Balance of Power in North America". He completely missed the main British Army in North America though, which was slated to cut across the Union LoCs from New Brunswick through New England (and also completely misunderstood the nature of the Canadian Militia and the Williams' defence plans involved an aggressive strike to knock out the main Union strong points rather than wait passively at Montreal).

Also, the Franco-Confederate Army at Richmond was halved in DV, the Confederates OTL had 90,000 men (+) at Richmond, adding Bazaine's Corps of 30,000 would leave McClellan's AoP outnumbered about 3:1. The CSA would walk into Washington....
 
Formulaic to a high degree

What is unfortunate about all of Conroy's books, so far, they are extremely formulaic. You pretty much have a good idea which historical character will be killed off. McKinley dies in his first one, Palmerston in this and MacArthur in the other.
 
Sound exactly like Conroy's previous "1901". An man dies early, leading to an evil European invading the USA, which is bravely defended by an admirable president, an old super-general who comes from retirement, and a fictional minor officer in the US Army. Despite being put against the ropes, the USA wins in the end because the enemy makes all possible stupid mistakes and does not has a real strategy. Wonder if there is also a high class dominatrix lurking around the Army officer and modern views on racial seggregation.
 
Sound exactly like Conroy's previous "1901". An man dies early, leading to an evil European invading the USA, which is bravely defended by an admirable president, an old super-general who comes from retirement, and a fictional minor officer in the US Army. Despite being put against the ropes, the USA wins in the end because the enemy makes all possible stupid mistakes and does not has a real strategy. Wonder if there is also a high class dominatrix lurking around the Army officer and modern views on racial seggregation.

Spot on. Even with the dominatrix - tho its lesbian sex in 1862.
 
apparently, I'm the only one who likes 1901... although, I don't remember any dominatrix in it.... and IIRC, nobody 'died early' in 1901 to start the war (Stars and Stripes trilogy had that though)... the Kaiser just up and decided to invade....
 
apparently, I'm the only one who likes 1901... although, I don't remember any dominatrix in it.... and IIRC, nobody 'died early' in 1901 to start the war (Stars and Stripes trilogy had that though)... the Kaiser just up and decided to invade....

Well, granted, the early death is not what causes thew war, but it appears at the start of it when McKinley suffers a heart attack shortly after being DOWed just to have Theodore Badass Roosevelt in charge of things.
 
apparently, I'm the only one who likes 1901... although, I don't remember any dominatrix in it.... and IIRC, nobody 'died early' in 1901 to start the war (Stars and Stripes trilogy had that though)... the Kaiser just up and decided to invade....

The dominatrix of sorts is in 1864. When I first read 1901 I really liked it, but as I digested it and discussed it with others over the years it sort of lost its luster. What really kicked it those was Conroy's 1864 and 1945 where is formula really showed thru. If 1901 was a stand alone book it would been good.

Just checked Amazon and it appears he has a book coming out next year titled 1942.

"The sneak attack on Pearl Harbor is widely regarded as a major defeat for the U.S. Navy. However, if Japanese Admiral Nagumo had only followed his orders, the results would have been catastrophic. Nagumo was supposed to launch a final attack, but decided he couldn't afford the few hours necessary to hit the mundane remaining targets. In the alternate history audio 1942, Nagumo's mind is changed and he attacks. Pearl Harbor is no longer viable as a base and Hawaii cannot be reinforced, which leads to a Japanese invasion of the islands."

Uh-oh. Things don't look good.
 

MrP

Banned
Just checked Amazon and it appears he has a book coming out next year titled 1942.

"The sneak attack on Pearl Harbor is widely regarded as a major defeat for the U.S. Navy. However, if Japanese Admiral Nagumo had only followed his orders, the results would have been catastrophic. Nagumo was supposed to launch a final attack, but decided he couldn't afford the few hours necessary to hit the mundane remaining targets. In the alternate history audio 1942, Nagumo's mind is changed and he attacks. Pearl Harbor is no longer viable as a base and Hawaii cannot be reinforced, which leads to a Japanese invasion of the islands."

Uh-oh. Things don't look good.

I felt a tremor in the board - as if a thousand posters suddenly cried out in pain. :D
 
The dominatrix of sorts is in 1864. When I first read 1901 I really liked it, but as I digested it and discussed it with others over the years it sort of lost its luster. What really kicked it those was Conroy's 1864 and 1945 where is formula really showed thru. If 1901 was a stand alone book it would been good.

I haven't read the other two, so it is a stand alone book for me... :)
 
Conroy was here

It wasn't that bad. I'm not sure things would have worked out as predicted particularly regarding Canada but it avoid that theatre of the absurd of the Stars and Stripes trilogy. The worst thing in 1862 is the potrayal of Disraeli as an effete fop.
 
Sounds like 1942 will also stink to high heaven.

Nagumo didn't launch a further strike for the following reasons:

1) He now knew American carrier(s) were in the area which only served to divide his attention.

2) His air groups had already taken substantial losses, each strike taking roughly three times the losses of the previous one. It isn't impossible that a final strike, however successful, might have left him reduced to six carriers but the air contingents of two, and the US was known to have three carriers in the Pacific...somewhere.

3) Planning had assumed that Nagumo would lose 40-50% of his total forces in the strike on Pearl Harbor, possible engagement with American carriers not taken into account. Having avoided all ship losses and a majority of the expected air losses he considered it questionable to risk much higher losses to obtain the last bits of the prize.

In more practical terms Japan frantically wanted a great battle that would break the back of the US Pacific Fleet and win the war. A successful strike on the oil tank farms which held the US fleet back until late 1942 or early 1943 would have been exactly what Japan didn't want. Yamamoto knew only too well that once the US started producing Japan's chances of victory would go from slim to none.

67th Tigers, actually I don't believe France was involved in 1862.
 
apparently, I'm the only one who likes 1901... although, I don't remember any dominatrix in it.... and IIRC, nobody 'died early' in 1901 to start the war (Stars and Stripes trilogy had that though)... the Kaiser just up and decided to invade....

I liked "1901," too. Not the greatest plausibility, but an enjoyable read. "1862" was a total disaster. Indeed, I enjoyed Harry Harrison's take on that scenario more than Conroy's, by far. Harrison's was so implausible it was entertaining. And the scene where Sherman is marching into the Confederate camp, and orders his fifer to play "Dixie" to defuse the mounting tension, made it worth reading even if nothing else had. :D

Conroy's was just...boring.
 

Grey Wolf

Donor
Winfield Scott?! :eek: Wasn't the man senile by '62?

I'm very confused

Winfield Scott WAS commander in chief of the US Army in 1861 and he was far from senile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winfield_Scott

As Union general-in-chief at the beginning of the American Civil War, the elderly Scott knew he was unable to go into battle himself. He was too large to mount or ride his horse. He offered the command of the Federal army to Colonel Robert E. Lee. However, when Virginia left the Union in April 1861, Lee resigned and the command of the Federal field forces defending Washington, D.C. passed to Brigadier General Irvin McDowell. Although he was born and raised in Virginia, Scott remained loyal to the nation that he had served for most of his life and refused to resign his commission upon his home state's secession.

Scott did not believe that a quick victory was possible for Federal forces. He devised a long-term plan to defeat the Confederacy by occupying key terrain, such as the Mississippi River and key ports on the Atlantic Coast and the Gulf of Mexico, and then moving on Atlanta. This Anaconda Plan was derided in the press; however, in its broad outlines, it was the strategy the Union actually used, particularly in the Western Theater and in the successful naval blockade of Confederate ports. In 1864, it was continued by General Ulysses S. Grant and executed by General William Tecumseh Sherman in his Atlanta Campaign and March to the Sea.

So, is Conroy having him REMAIN in this position rather than do a Longstreet and be drafted in to save the Union ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I'm very confused

Winfield Scott WAS commander in chief of the US Army in 1861 and he was far from senile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winfield_Scott



So, is Conroy having him REMAIN in this position rather than do a Longstreet and be drafted in to save the Union ?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

I knew he was in charge at the start... I just thought he resigned early on due to not feeling up to the task. Didn't realise he came up with the Anaconda plan.
 
A much better end to 1901 would have been with the Kaiser pushing England too far, the RN intervening with the US and events proceeding as they did in the book, particularly the new Anglo-American alliance.
 
A much better end to 1901 would have been with the Kaiser pushing England too far, the RN intervening with the US and events proceeding as they did in the book, particularly the new Anglo-American alliance.

considering that England practically armed the new American forces and then gave the USN a safe harbor in Canadian waters, you can kinda say that that happened anyway....
 
I knew he was in charge at the start... I just thought he resigned early on due to not feeling up to the task. Didn't realise he came up with the Anaconda plan.

After reading 1862 I became very interested in the life and times of Winfield Scott. What a delightful and colourful fellow. Even the Duke of Wellington considered him to be the greatest general of his age. Scott's march on Mexico City made him famous, so it is unfortunate that he's been overshadowed - if not entirely forgotten - in light of Robert E. Lee or U.S. Grant.
 
After reading 1862 I became very interested in the life and times of Winfield Scott. What a delightful and colourful fellow. Even the Duke of Wellington considered him to be the greatest general of his age. Scott's march on Mexico City made him famous, so it is unfortunate that he's been overshadowed - if not entirely forgotten - in light of Robert E. Lee or U.S. Grant.

I really know jack all about him, except that he's one of the reenactors in Canada: A People's History and that 1812 doc I forget the name of*, and always sounds really deep-southern and pissed off at whatever idiocity the command has done now. :D Seriously, all his quotes are hilarious, talking about what a bunch of cowards and scoundrels they all are.

*Anyone can think of the one I'm talking about? It had reneactments and actors reading all the primary sources, and I'm fairly sure it was made in Canada.
 
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