AHC: Establish a large predator species in the New World

[Arkenfolm]

A major predator species in the Great Plains would actually do pretty well, given that after the last ice age, the majority of the bison's predators went extinct as well as the competitors of the bison, like horses and prehistoric giant bison. As long as it can survive harsh winters and be able to locate water during droughts, a large predator would do pretty well.

Although if the bison population were to collapse, say by a mixture of drought, introduction of millions of horses, massive demand for their pelts, and deliberate overhunting, then I can't imagine this large predator would survive with the majority of its prey extinct. Ranchers would demand this large predator be eliminated and likely do a very good job at it. It would certainly make for an interesting addition to Westerns. Imagine cowboys shooting lions from horseback.

 

[Lenwe]

Well if your point is a big predator species that hunt boars, there are studies in Chile that show that Pumas/mountain lions(puma concolor) are hunting a large proportions of his prey as juveniles boars, maybe in USA this shift is less notorious as there are a large sample of less dangerous prey options(buffaloes, elk, mustang horses, white tailed deer,Bighors, etc) that in the Southern cone(wild big game only: Vicuña, Guanaco, Huemul tha is endagered, and the Mara Patagonica and the last one is a strech)

here the study in spanish

"
ABSTRACT

The diet of the American puma (Puma concolor) was studied in 1988 and 2004 in the foothills of the volcanoes Mocho and Choshuenco, Valdivian rainforest, southern Chile, through the identification of prey-items in their feces and field surveys of European wild boar (Sus scrofa) carcasses. We reported for the first time the invader European wild boar as a puma's prey in Chile. The puma preys mainly on juveniles and its percentage of consumed prey ranges between 17 and 37 % according to the method employed to assess the analyses of their feces prey contents."

 

[wadebirdwhistle]

Well if your point is a big predator species that hunt boars, there are studies in Chile that show that Pumas/mountain lions(puma concolor) are hunting a large proportions of his prey as juveniles boars, maybe in USA this shift is less notorious as there are a large sample of less dangerous prey options(buffaloes, elk, mustang horses, white tailed deer,Bighors, etc) that in the Southern cone(wild big game only: Vicuña, Guanaco, Huemul tha is endagered, and the Mara Patagonica and the last one is a strech)

here the study in spanish

"
ABSTRACT

The diet of the American puma (Puma concolor) was studied in 1988 and 2004 in the foothills of the volcanoes Mocho and Choshuenco, Valdivian rainforest, southern Chile, through the identification of prey-items in their feces and field surveys of European wild boar (Sus scrofa) carcasses. We reported for the first time the invader European wild boar as a puma's prey in Chile. The puma preys mainly on juveniles and its percentage of consumed prey ranges between 17 and 37 % according to the method employed to assess the analyses of their feces prey contents."

I wasn’t arguing for how they might be introduced, just the feasibility of the establishment of stable populations. Cougars would not be serious competition for tigers, and they would likely figure out some sort of mutual avoidance the way they have with jaguars where their habitats overlap. That said, tigers could do very well in the wetlands of the American South, but would also be suitable for isolated wetland habitats where boats are present such as Southern Utah (the Uintas and the Glenn Canyon National Recreation Area come to mind), Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.

 

[Lenwe]

I wasn’t arguing for how they might be introduced, just the feasibility of the establishment of stable populations. Cougars would not be serious competition for tigers, and they would likely figure out some sort of mutual avoidance the way they have with jaguars where their habitats overlap. That said, tigers could do very well in the wetlands of the American South, but would also be suitable for isolated wetland habitats where boats are present such as Southern Utah (the Uintas and the Glenn Canyon National Recreation Area come to mind), Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico.

But in these part you could also have a Jaguar, the only reason there is not a stable population of Jaguars in USA prairies and Argentine Prairies is human presence.
I´m not sure about Why there is not Historic presence of the Jaguar in the Bayou and Mississippi, by all accounts these land are ideal for the Jaguar breeding, not so dissimilar to the Amazons and south american jungle, and Jaguar eats Caimans, so there is not really a problem.

 

[Arkenfolm]

But in these part you could also have a Jaguar, the only reason there is not a stable population of Jaguars in USA prairies and Argentine Prairies is human presence.
I´m not sure about Why there is not Historic presence of the Jaguar in the Bayou and Mississippi, by all accounts these land are ideal for the Jaguar breeding, not so dissimilar to the Amazons and south american jungle, and Jaguar eats Caimans, so there is not really a problem.

In the South, jaguars seem to have survived until the past few centuries, although they were probably very rare, if not already extinct, by the time Europeans showed up (nowadays the only variety appears to be the Jacksonville Jaguar). They were definitely around during the last ice age though.

 

[Napoleonrules]

Interesting fact- there are more tigers in captivity in the US than there are wild in the entire world (Texas by itself is coming very close to having more in captivity than there are wild in the world). Let all 5,000 of them loose in the US and I think we have enough breeding pairs to determine what would happen. Purely for #Science

 

[Lenwe]

In the South, jaguars seem to have survived until the past few centuries, although they were probably very rare, if not already extinct, by the time Europeans showed up (nowadays the only variety appears to be the Jacksonville Jaguar). They were definitely around during the last ice age though.

The question Is why? The land and The big gane there áre pretty Good to Maintain a healthy jaguar population, at east by how The europeans describe The land in their explorations, and The only Predator bigger and lethal than a jaguar in The Américas Is The Human, and Even then There Is a healthy jaguar population in mesoamérica as far as i know

 

[zoomar]

I'm jumping in here cold, but I don't understand the thread. Wouldn't jaguars, grizzly bears, cougars, or wolves count as "large predators"? Or for that matter, when humans migrated to the New World, we would have certainly qualified as a an introduced large predator species. To some extent, it may have been our success in hunting and overhunting large megafauna to the brink and over the edge of extinction that depleted the resources upon which really large predators like smilidon depended.

 

[leopard9]

I'm jumping in here cold, but I don't understand the thread. Wouldn't jaguars, grizzly bears, cougars, or wolves count as "large predators"? Or for that matter, when humans migrated to the New World, we would have certainly qualified as a an introduced large predator species. To some extent, it may have been our success in hunting and overhunting large megafauna to the brink and over the edge of extinction that depleted the resources upon which really large predators like smilidon depended.

Perhaps the OP wasn't clear but I specifically mean Old World predators becoming established in the Americas or Australia in the same way Eurasian Boar have.

 

[JackLumber]

Perhaps the OP wasn't clear but I specifically mean Old World predators becoming established in the Americas or Australia in the same way Eurasian Boar have.

Bear and wolves still fit that bill

 

[jayel]

The question Is why? The land and The big gane there áre pretty Good to Maintain a healthy jaguar population, at east by how The europeans describe The land in their explorations, and The only Predator bigger and lethal than a jaguar in The Américas Is The Human, and Even then There Is a healthy jaguar population in mesoamérica as far as i know

1. Polar bear,
2. Brown Bear (Kodiak),
3. Grizzly bear,
4. Alligator,
5. Black bear here's 5 I can think of although a jaguar might kick a black bears ass, the bear is heavier

 

[JackLumber]

1. Polar bear,
2. Brown Bear (Kodiak),
3. Grizzly bear,
4. Alligator,
5. Black bear here's 5 I can think of although a jaguar might kick a black bears ass, the bear is heavier

Grizzly bears and Kodiaks are both brown bears

 

[jayel]

Grizzly bears and Kodiaks are both brown bears

sub species yes but distinct enough for this

 

[JackLumber]

sub species yes but distinct enough for this

I'd disagree but do what you will

 

[leopard9]

Bear and wolves still fit that bill

Stop being pedantic. Predators that weren't in the New World before the Columbian Exchange.

 

[zoomar]

Bear and wolves still fit that bill

In that case, I'd go with the African lion as the best bet. There are lots of them in zoos and their historical range in the old world ranged into temperate steppe and grasslands like the American Great Plains.

 

[sloreck]

Bears are forest creatures, as are jaguars and wolves as well. None of them have their primary range in the open prairie, and only a Kodiak bear would have much chance against an adult bison. Lions could do well against Bison, although not the largest males, and the prairie is ideal for them

 

[Lenwe]

1. Polar bear,
2. Brown Bear (Kodiak),
3. Grizzly bear,
4. Alligator,
5. Black bear here's 5 I can think of although a jaguar might kick a black bears ass, the bear is heavier

Ok
1) polar bear and jaguar use completly
diferent ecológical niches, preys, and Hunting strategies so they don't compete
2-3) historical ranges for both Brown bear and jaguar have a significant overlaping, And Is not until The Human interferencia that both animales declined and Going reduces their habitat to their actual range.
4) jaguar eat caiman or alligator

5) again their historicsl ranges overlap

 

[Jared]

Hard to see that any reasonable human would bring big cats when they might be dangerous for humans and cattle.

On the other hand, there's no shortage of unreasonable humans.

 

[Sevarics]

Do hippos count because an eccentric Colombian drug lord brought them to the Americas