AHC: StuG Sherman

[Life In Black]

Your challenge is to come up with a plausible POD to turn a Sherman tank into a Sturmgeschütz type vehicle. Perhaps WWII has dragged on longer or Israel never aquired Centurions (Sorry MacCaulay) and is forced to improvise. Is such a thing plausible? Discuss.

Note: I personally am picturing a cross between a Sherman Kangaroo and the Swedish S tank, but any ideas and artwork is welcome.

 

[Baker Easy]

There was such a thing as a "3 inch Gun Motor Carriage T40" which was built on the chassis of the M3 Lee, which is almost the same thing. I believe it was open-topped though.

Wiki reference

It's going to be included in the game World of Tanks; the devs have an image of it here. Not sure just how accurate it is though.

 

[Life In Black]

This is pretty much exactly what I pictured:

Thank you for finding this!

EDIT: Now if only you could do this with a regular Sherman, perhaps with a 90mm gun.

 

[Sior]

If the picture is an accurate representation then the chassis was lengthened with the addition of another set of running gear. This could diminish manoverability.

 

[Life In Black]

If the picture is an accurate representation then the chassis was lengthened with the addition of another set of running gear. This could diminish manoverability.

The picture is supposed to be a prototype T-28, so it isn't entirely accurate, not showing the double set of tracks for instance as well as the fourth running gear. However, the side profile is very close to what I imagined.

 

[phx1138]

Seems to me you're already close with the M3. What's needed is a change in doctrine.

 

[Just Leo]

A Quickpaste

 

[Theodoric]

Don't think you can have one in WW2 without radically altering US armoured doctrine.

 

[Claymore]

Just found this thread and it somewhat links to another where I posted a possible StuG Sherman that I have built in 1:35 scale. Here it is in US Army colours but I am thinking of repainting it in an IDF colour scheme as I think it looks more like something they might have come up with.

Edit: Just reread some old posts and realise it was your good self Life in Black that gave me the idea for the StuG Sherman in the first place!!! Small world eh?

 

[RamscoopRaider]

Just found this thread and it somewhat links to another where I posted a possible StuG Sherman that I have built in 1:35 scale. Here it is in US Army colours but I am thinking of repainting it in an IDF colour scheme as I think it looks like something they might have come up with.

Nice job with that thing

 

[Claymore]

Nice job with that thing

Why thank you

 

[Kome]

Nice job with that thing

Indeed! ^_^

 

[Cryptic]

Your challenge is to come up with a plausible POD to turn a Sherman tank into a Sturmgeschütz type vehicle. Perhaps WWII has dragged on longer...

Maybe...


Winter 1940:
The British are desperatly shopping for armour. They have heard about Soviet self propelled guns and are interested in them for the same reasons as the Soviets. Not satisfied with the Lee tank, they request drawings of an infantry support tank on a Sherman chassis. They, will of course, want the turrented Sherman as well
-Its cheap (in early 1941, lend lease put more emphasis on lease)
-It fits well with the British infantry tank philosophy of cruiser tank / infantry tank mix
-Its easier to maintain that an turrented vehicle and can be used more readily by new crews
-There are still jitters of a German invasion possibility and a more heavily armoured defensive tank could come in handy

1941-42:
The British take delivery of about 1,000 sherman stugs. The British use a few in manuver armoured regiments, but most are used as infantry support or in engineer units. Not facing a manuver threat and impressed by the frontal armour, the USMC requests several hundred Sherm stugs as well.

1942-45:
The U.S. and British interest in the stug variant declines. But... the eastern front consumes armoured vehicles at a horrendous rate, more than even the Soviets can produce. The Sherm-stug, but not the Sherman is offered to the Soviets. Paranoid U.S. armaments officers congratulate themselves that the Soviets will not get the the U.S. lead tank (little do they know that the Soviets have far better tanks of their own). Thousands of Sherm stugs are delivered to the USSR.

 

[Life In Black]

Just found this thread and it somewhat links to another where I posted a possible StuG Sherman that I have built in 1:35 scale. Here it is in US Army colours but I am thinking of repainting it in an IDF colour scheme as I think it looks more like something they might have come up with.

Edit: Just reread some old posts and realise it was your good self Life in Black that gave me the idea for the StuG Sherman in the first place!!! Small world eh?

I remember telling you when you first showed me a picture of it, but I'll say it again. You did a damn good job on it!

Maybe...


Winter 1940:
The British are desperatly shopping for armour. They have heard about Soviet self propelled guns and are interested in them for the same reasons as the Soviets. Not satisfied with the Lee tank, they request drawings of an infantry support tank on a Sherman chassis. They, will of course, want the turrented Sherman as well
-Its cheap (in early 1941, lend lease put more emphasis on lease)
-It fits well with the British infantry tank philosophy of cruiser tank / infantry tank mix
-Its easier to maintain that an turrented vehicle and can be used more readily by new crews
-There are still jitters of a German invasion possibility and a more heavily armoured defensive tank could come in handy

1941-42:
The British take delivery of about 1,000 sherman stugs. The British use a few in manuver armoured regiments, but most are used as infantry support or in engineer units. Not facing a manuver threat and impressed by the frontal armour, the USMC requests several hundred Sherm stugs as well.

1942-45:
The U.S. and British interest in the stug variant declines. But... the eastern front consumes armoured vehicles at a horrendous rate, more than even the Soviets can produce. The Sherm-stug, but not the Sherman is offered to the Soviets. Paranoid U.S. armaments officers congratulate themselves that the Soviets will not get the the U.S. lead tank (little do they know that the Soviets have far better tanks of their own). Thousands of Sherm stugs are delivered to the USSR.

Looking back, a StuG Sherman seems like exactly the sort of modification the Soviets would do to their lend-lease Shermans.

 

[Easterling]

Probably the most simple and straightforward way to "solve" this challenge is to have the Germans capture a large number of Shermans somewhere (worse US defeat at Kasserine, failed landing in Europe, LL tanks in Russia, etc...) and then turn them into tank destroyers. (The Germans would judge that the tank is reliable and has good mobility, but needs to be upgunned and uparmored.)

 

[Life In Black]

Probably the most simple and straightforward way to "solve" this challenge is to have the Germans capture a large number of Shermans somewhere (worse US defeat at Kasserine, failed landing in Europe, LL tanks in Russia, etc...) and then turn them into tank destroyers. (The Germans would judge that the tank is reliable and has good mobility, but needs to be upgunned and uparmored.)

That would also work quite well I think.

 

[sharlin]

In Africa the Sher-stug or Vindictive or Vinny as the British called it performed exceptionally well against the lightly armoured tanks of the Italian army. Its gun although not great at penetrating armour flung a heavy enough shell that it could do fearsome damage with either armour peircing or HE Shells.

The British 8th Army loved the Vindictive because of its versatility and ease of maintenance and because it could give the troops support with HE shells, a thing that British tanks lacked until the arrival of the Grant.

In battles against the Afrika Corps the Vinny performed well and was one of the few English vehicles with a gun that could reliably destroy Panzer IV's at long range and engage dug in 88mm gun positions.

 

[NothingNow]

Your challenge is to come up with a plausible POD to turn a Sherman tank into a Sturmgeschütz type vehicle. Perhaps WWII has dragged on longer or Israel never aquired Centurions (Sorry MacCaulay) and is forced to improvise. Is such a thing plausible? Discuss.

It'd probably be a shortcut to production sort of thing, or IMO more likely be a field upgrade to the M3 Grant/Lee with better armor and the 37mm gun turret chopped off, maybe with the gun centrally mounted instead of being out on the sponsoon it was IOTL.

Of course, a StuG sort of thing fitted with the 90mm Gun M3 in a set up like the JagdPanther, which would be a good rush job for production as a replacement in Europe for the M26 Pershing as a heavy tank, and a good enough supplement for the Sherman Jumbo in a support role, even as the M36 Jackson is still the American Heavy Tank Destroyer.

 

[Life In Black]

It'd probably be a shortcut to production sort of thing, or IMO more likely be a field upgrade to the M3 Grant/Lee with better armor and the 37mm gun turret chopped off, maybe with the gun centrally mounted instead of being out on the sponsoon it was IOTL.

Of course, a StuG sort of thing fitted with the 90mm Gun M3 in a set up like the JagdPanther, which would be a good rush job for production as a replacement in Europe for the M26 Pershing as a heavy tank, and a good enough supplement for the Sherman Jumbo in a support role, even as the M36 Jackson is still the American Heavy Tank Destroyer.

Agreed, the Grant might be a better platform for such a vehicle.

 

[Cryptic]

Looking back, a StuG Sherman seems like exactly the sort of modification the Soviets would do to their lend-lease Shermans.

If they do, they could want to use their own gun as well. The end result could be more effort than the project is worth (especially mid war war when the Soviets did not have time for radical alterations).

Probably the most simple and straightforward way to "solve" this challenge is to have the Germans capture a large number of Shermans somewhere

That is the simplest, but that way is only going to yield several hundred stug Shermans. If a Stug Sherman is offered to the British for use early to mid war and then to the Soviets, thousands of Stug Shermans can be created. Then, the Germans could capture several hundred and use them as well.