That's awesome to hear! Sure there would probably be pearl clutching amongst conservatives but by and large I think moviegooers would accept and enjoy seeing that representation in the Alien film🙂Thank you both! Glad you enjoyed.
A good question regarding Alien featuring LGBT+ representation ITTL. I'm going to say that yes, this idea made it into the final film, but was probably not overly emphasized. It would still lead to the film being pilloried by the conservative outrage machine, but what else can you expect? On the bright side, this would also be an early example of positive representation of LGBT+ people in Horror films, specifically.
Blue Skies in Camelot (Continued): An Alternate 80s and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
- Start date
Also @President_Lincoln did President Udall screen any of those films at the White House? I think it would be hilarious if it was revealed he watched the Muppet movie with his kids😂
Possibly! I feel like a man with Udall's sense of humor would have to enjoy the Muppet Movie
Also @President_Lincoln a question I asked earlier how is gerrymandering in Blue Skies?
Mr. President, you forgot about this year's movies like Rocky II, Moonraker, and Mad Max. And you forgot also to include Michael Jackson's Off The Wall which was introduced the same year. Are they better ITTL?
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Good stuff! I can imagine that being the case because of Harvey Milk and Bayard Rustin both being Congressmen ITTL! Of course the Conservative outrage machine would attack this film, alongside parents groups too, but alas, what’re you gonna do about it?
More Movies & Music from 1979
Apologies for not getting to this sooner. As per OTL, in the 1960s, a series of "one person, one vote" cases were decided by the Supreme Court, which resulted in a mandate of redistricting in response to the results of each census. Prior to these decisions, many states had stopped redrawing their districts. As a result of the periodic need to redistrict, political conflicts over redistricting have sharply increased. Gerrymandering is thus, unfortunately, still an issue ITTL as of 1979. As time goes on, however, this will become an area where advocates for reform may focus their efforts.
Don't worry, my friend. I didn't forget. I simply like to keep my Pop Culture updates relatively brief. Included here are details about the films and music you mentioned...
Rocky II - Sports Drama. Written by, directed by, and starring Sylvester Stallone. The film also features Talia Shire, Burt Young, Carl Weathers, and Burgess Meredith. The film centers around Rocky Balboa struggling to adjust to his newfound fame and family life. He is then challenged to a much-anticipated rematch with Apollo Creed. Development of Rocky II began in 1977, after Stallone completed the screenplay. Though United Artists was initially reluctant to allow Stallone to direct, he refused to be involved with the production unless he was given the green light. The studio eventually gave in. The film received generally positive reviews from critics, with praise for its characterization and Stallone's performance. It grossed $200 million worldwide and $85 million in North America, making it the third highest-grossing film of 1979 domestically and the second highest-grossing film worldwide. As far as sequels go, it's pretty darn solid.
Drax, an enigmatic British industrialist, is entrusted by Her Majesty's Government to develop a new, state of the art ICBM for the United Kingdom's nuclear defense deterrent in the Cold War. It is claimed that the missile, codenamed "MOONRAKER", will make Britain safer, and less reliant on the United States. After a Ministry of Supply security officer working at the project is shot dead, M assigns Bond to replace him and also to investigate what has been going on at the missile-building base, located between Dover and Deal on the south coast of England. Strangely, all of the rocket scientists working on the project are German. At his post on the complex, Bond meets Gala Brand (Lois Chiles), a beautiful police Special Branch officer working undercover as Drax's personal assistant. Bond also uncovers clues concerning his predecessor's death, concluding that the man may have been killed for witnessing a submarine off the coast.
Drax's henchman Krebs (Richard Kiel) is caught by Bond snooping through his room. Later, an attempted assassination by triggering a landslide nearly kills Bond and Brand, as they swim beneath the Dover cliffs. Drax takes Brand to London, where she discovers the truth about the Moonraker by comparing her own launch trajectory figures with those in a notebook picked from Drax's pocket. She is captured by Krebs, and finds herself captive in a secret radio homing station—intended to serve as a beacon for the missile's guidance system—in the heart of London. While Brand is being taken back to the Moonraker facility by Drax, Bond gives chase, but is also captured by Drax and Krebs.
Drax tells Bond that he was never a British soldier and has never suffered from amnesia: his real name is Graf Hugo von der Drache, the German commander of a "Werewolf" commando unit. Disguised in an Allied uniform, he was the saboteur whose team placed the car bomb at the army field headquarters, only to be injured himself in the detonation. The amnesia story was simply a cover he used while recovering in hospital to avoid recognition, although it would lead to a whole new British identity. Drax remains a dedicated Nazi, bent on revenge against England for the wartime defeat of his Fatherland and his prior history of social slights suffered as a youth growing up in an English boarding school before the war. He explains that he now means to destroy London, with a Soviet-supplied nuclear warhead that has been secretly fitted to the Moonraker. His company is also selling the British pound short in order to make a huge profit from the disaster.
Brand and Bond are imprisoned where the blast from the Moonraker's engines will incinerate them, to leave no trace of them once the missile is launched. Before the launch, the couple escape. Brand gives Bond the coordinates he needs to redirect the gyros and send the Moonraker into the sea. Having been in collaboration with Soviet Intelligence all along, Drax and his henchman attempt to escape by Soviet submarine—only to be killed as the vessel makes its escape through the waters onto which the Moonraker has been re-targeted. After their debriefing at headquarters, Bond meets up with Brand, expecting her company—but they part ways after she reveals that she is engaged to a fellow Special Branch officer.
Above: Julian Glover as James Bond (Moonraker would mark Glover's fourth turn as 007); Lois Chiles as Gala Brand; James Mason as Sir Hugo Drax.
Mad Max - Dystopian action. Directed by George Miller and starring a debuting Geoffrey Rush as "Mad" Max Rockatansky, a police officer turned vigilante in a near-future Australia in the midst of societal collapse. Principal photography for Mad Max took place in and around Melbourne and lasted for six weeks. The film initially received a polarized reception upon its release in April 1979, although it won four AACTA Awards. Filmed on a budget of just $400,000, it earned more than US$100 million worldwide in gross revenue and set a Guinness record for the most profitable film in history. The success of Mad Max has been credited for further opening up the global market to Australian New Wave films. Originally, Rush's roommate, fellow young actor Mel Gibson was attached to the project. Gibson eventually dropped out, however, after an automobile accident just before filming was set to start left him with a broken leg. He passed the part on to Rush, whose turn was seen as suitably laconic and brooding. Rush would return as Max in 1981's Mad Max 2 and 1985's Beyond Thunderdome.
Off the Wall was the fifth studio album by Michael Jackson. Released on August 10th, 1979, the album was Jackson's first with Epic Records. Crafted from a singular blend of disco, pop, funk, R&B, soft rock, and even Broadway ballads, the album contains lyrical themes of escapism, loneliness, liberation, hedonism, and romance. It also features songwriting contributions from such artists as Stevie Wonder, Paul McCartney, and David Foster. From the album, four singles: "Don't Stop Til You Get Enough"; "Rock With You"; "Off the Wall"; and "She's Out of My Life" would all reach the Billboard top 10. The first two even went to number one. A major departure from Jackson's earlier work, Off the Wall seemed to represent a breakthrough for the burgeoning "King of Pop". He finally seemed to be leaving his Motown past behind and forging a unique identity for himself.
What’s going on with the child actors Henry Thomas, Drew Barrymore, and C. Thomas Howell so far?
Henry Thomas - Currently 8 years old. Living in his hometown of San Antonio, Texas. He has yet to break into acting ITTL, though that will soon change.
Drew Barrymore - Currently only 4 years old. Living in West Hollywood with her famous parents (and the rest of the Barrymore acting dynasty).
C. Thomas Howell - Currently 13 years old. Acting in a few commercials. Looking to break into a TV or film role.
I can imagine Thomas and Barrymore going along something like their OTL paths, but please just make sure for Howell that one film doesn’t exist…
Yeah, it was made in 1986 and the PoD was in 1962, and that both the civil rights and social movements are stronger than they were IOTL’s 1970s and 1980s and other movies have been changed or outright butterflied out of existence before, so I think it’s clearly possible to do it to this mistake of a film about “racial justice”, I do not wish for anybody to star in that interesting but overall regrettable embarrassment.
Totally valid.
Moving forward, one of the focuses I'm going to try and have on popular culture is imagining what films/shows/etc. might not exist at all now that we are getting pretty far out from our POD. Further, there are all kinds of music, films, etc. that would exist, given all of the different surviving figures and so on.
There's no question that Rocky II is another one of best sequels ever, Moonraker would not be Julian Glover's last film to portray as Bond, and Mad Max stars Geoffrey Rush? All right fine, I'll allow it anyway. Off The Wall is the beginning of Michael Jackson's successful solo careers after The Jacksons. Please forgive me to add another movies like ...And Justice For All, All That Jazz, Manhattan, Monty Phyton's Life of Brian, The Warriors, and The China Syndrome. I don’t know if there's going to be also a lot of changes to this movies.
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Do you think shows Like NYPD Blue or Law and Order still exist? I mean those were pretty important shows and I know we're not in the 90s yet but the butterfly effect still makes me wonder
I feel like there's always room for the development of Police procedurals like these. They will almost certainly exist ITTL.
I will try to add some of these later today if I have time.
Good and I don't just ask because I love those shows in OTL but because those shows dealt with pretty serious topics NYPD Blue especially and even with TTL's version of events having better impact on the United States It would be interesting to see how those changes affect those shows and their storylines. Well maybe not the storylines but everything else. Speaking of serious topics how do you see All in the family going about with the serious changes of the 1970s?
Thank you for the response and I apologize myself again for this notice because I'm always curious and started to give me a new perspective after becoming a part of this timeline of yours and being my new family here after almost a year here. Got any surprises or plans for the 6th Anniversary of Blue Skies In Camelot next month?
Hmm…
Maybe Badfinger can make it big without them being screwed over ITTL? I could imagine “Baby Blue” becoming a famous song here ITTL with bigger and better coverage and exposure, with peopling humming the theme and lyrics around the world earlier than IOTL.
As for shows that will or won’t exist:
-The Sorpranos probably still exists, since IIRC the Mafia is still declining like IOTL, although since David Chase originally intended for it too be a movie, maybe here ITTL it is one instead of a TV Show, released in 1999 as a crime drama starring James Gandolfini as Tony Soprano
- Breaking Bad most likely doesn’t exist due to the United States’ more progressive and reconciliatory path instead of just punishing and vilifying society’s problems, especially with the butterflies between 1962 and 2008 meaning that it wouldn’t exist let alone be the juggernaut it is well-known as today, but I could imagine Vince Gilligan doing something great with Bryan Cranston assuming they still meet ITTL. Hopefully Aaron Paul, Bob Odenkirk, Giancarlo Esposito, and Dean Norris can still find themselves work ITTL.
- Maybe in an opposite to David Chases’s Sopranos ITTL, David Lynch’s Mulholland Drive is a television series that premieres in 2001 starring Naomi Watts.
- Grimm probably doesn’t exist, with there being some different dark fairy tale television show on the 2000s, but I hope that the main cast; David Giuntoli, Russell Hornsby, Bitsie Tulloch, Jacqueline Toboni, Silas Weir Mitchell, Sasha Roiz, Reggie Lee, Bree Turner, and Claire Coffee can all still find work ITTL, as I considered their acting to be quite good on that show, even if the series itself is nowhere near as famous or popular as other television shows on at the time.
- Spider-Man is probably adapted earlier in the 90s with Leonardo DiCaprio or somebody else in the lead role as the wall crawler himself, although hopefully Willem Dafoe, Alfred Molina, and J. K. Simmons can still make appearances here.
- Maybe Animorphs will be an actually successfully made kids show here? If the books still exist and are made that is.
- Unless it still happens ITTL, James Cameron doesn’t make The Terminator because it was based on a fever dream he had in Rome while filming for a movie in 1982.
- Due to the very different climate that Hollywood and celebrities will find themselves in here in the coming decades, I would imagine that Bojack Horseman or an equivalent series would be very different here.
- The Simpsons are definitely still created by Matt Groening, South Park by Matt Stone and Trey Parker could still exist, alongside Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill by Mike Judge, Family Guy probably not so much by Seth McFarlane as it could be replaced by something else, or that MacFarlane instead pursues a career in singing due to him being a big Frank Sinatra fan, and all of those awful rip-offs of both shows that plague the adult animation world up until this very day? Absolutely not and thank goodness for that! I would like Clone High by Phil Lloyd and Chris Miller to still exist here, but considering the butterflies it might not, but maybe it will just with a different cast of historical figures, especially if JFK is still alive by the time of the secret government operation beginning sometime in the 1980s.
- Depending on what happens to John K. ITTL, we may or may not get Ren and Stimpy, which would mean big changes to the animation industry if that is the case.
- Hopefully The Bill Cosby Show is replaced by a better show for African-Americans to enjoy.
- Kingdom of the Sun replaces The Emperor’s New Groove?
- Border 1939 could end up being finished ITTL by Studio Ghibli.
- Disney’s Chicken Little could follow its earlier drafts when Little was a girl who still had both of her parents, with her being sent to a summer camp where the staff have been kidnapped and replaced by hungry wolves who want to eat the campers.
- Michael Moore may or may not have a career here since both Columbine and 9/11 both definitely do not happen here ITTL.
- The Works could be finished here and become the first CGI feature film before Toy Story by 9 years.
- Stanley Kubrick directs the film adaptation of George Orwell’s famous novel 1984?
- Hopefully Tom Six never steps a foot inside the film industry ITTL.
- Kevin Spacey might get exposed earlier and hence House of Cards would be different without him in it.
- Harvey Weinstein hopefully gets exposed earlier pre-2000 and hence the Weinstein Company never exists.
- Back to the Future most likely still exists here, but the sequels might be different here, and will probably be released earlier in 1987 and 1989 respectively.
- Stanley Kubrick makes Napoleon.
- Quientin Tarantino does not lose any of his first film project My Best Friend’s Birthday in 1987.
- Home Alone has no sequels, and Macually Culkin has a better career and life here ITTL.
- Ke Huy Quan wins an Oscar earlier due to there being better Asian representation in American films here ITTL and makes a similar emotional and powerful speech to what he said in OTL 2023?
- One of Spike Lee’s films, possibly Do the Right Thing, wins an Academy Award for Best Picture, alongside Ang Lee and one of his films? And that Brokeback Mountain or it’s equivalent ITTL wins the Academy Award for Best Picture instead of Crash (a fitting name for a car crash of a film)?
- Maybe animators like Genndy Tartakovsky, C. H. Greenblatt, Craig McCracken, Lauren Faust, Alex Hirsch, Matt Braly, and Dana Terrace can still find work here?
- Perhaps the first onscreen same-sex kiss on an animated television show happens years earlier here? Alongside other LGBT achievements for television and film aswell?