Emperor Gaozong and Pei restore Narsieh to a rump Sassanian State.

[Sarthak]

So the son of Peroz III, Narseih was going to Persia, or more specifically the Persian steppes to be restored to the sassanian throne with the aid of a noble named Pei with the backing of the Tang Dynasty. Apparently the plan was to liberate transoxiana, and then restore Peroz III's rump state in Sistan and then the Chinese army sod turn back and return. However Pei abandoned this plan and attacked the goturks instead. What if pei stuck to the plan and succeeded in restoring the house of Sassan to a rump Persian state?
What would be the overall effects of this?

 

[GameBawesome]

(Hello, I know this is late, but I was thinking of asking this question, but saw this thread wasn’t threadlock, so it wasn’t dead yet)

So if a Sassanid Persian Rump state was formed in Transoxiana, it could take place the OTL Samanids and possibly OTL Saffarids, and be a very important trade route between the East and West

The only problem is the future Ghazanids, who could still form in Southern Afghanistan like OTL. After that, this Sassanid State would need to play its cards right, and bow down to future conquerors once the Tang collapse, like the Seljuks, the Khwarazmian Empire, and if they survived all that, the biggest one of the Mongol Empire.

It’d be pretty interesting if Zoroastrianism survives as a major religion in Central Asia

 

[goumaister]

(Hello, I know this is late, but I was thinking of asking this question, but saw this thread wasn’t threadlock, so it wasn’t dead yet)

So if a Sassanid Persian Rump state was formed in Transoxiana, it could take place the OTL Samanids and possibly OTL Saffarids, and be a very important trade route between the East and West

The only problem is the future Ghazanids, who could still form in Southern Afghanistan like OTL. After that, this Sassanid State would need to play its cards right, and bow down to future conquerors once the Tang collapse, like the Seljuks, the Khwarazmian Empire, and if they survived all that, the biggest one of the Mongol Empire.

It’d be pretty interesting if Zoroastrianism survives as a major religion in Central Asia

Wow mate you rushed waaay ahead in time there !
This expedition was at the end of the 7th century and you're talking for 10th century events at least!

I doubt the Chinese could defeat the Arabs but if they stayed and manage to establish a state in Central Asia South of the Aral Sea till the borders of Persia they could in the longterm be a threat if they stay stable and friendly with the Turks there. We could see a Zoroastrian faith restored and maybe some rebellions in Arab controlled Persia. Certainly this rump Persia could use the Abbasid takeover later on and nibble at the borders piece by piece till they get Persia back or till they are defeated and crumble. Well keeping the steppe and an alliance with the Turks can provide for some nice units for war and maybe kickstart an earlier Turkic migration into the Middle East.

If a TL is made the author can use it for a Sassanian return and a revenge maybe if he plans it right.

 

[Falecius]

Wow mate you rushed waaay ahead in time there !
This expedition was at the end of the 7th century and you're talking for 10th century events at least!

I doubt the Chinese could defeat the Arabs but if they stayed and manage to establish a state in Central Asia South of the Aral Sea till the borders of Persia they could in the longterm be a threat if they stay stable and friendly with the Turks there. We could see a Zoroastrian faith restored and maybe some rebellions in Arab controlled Persia. Certainly this rump Persia could use the Abbasid takeover later on and nibble at the borders piece by piece till they get Persia back or till they are defeated and crumble. Well keeping the steppe and an alliance with the Turks can provide for some nice units for war and maybe kickstart an earlier Turkic migration into the Middle East.

If a TL is made the author can use it for a Sassanian return and a revenge maybe if he plans it right.

This POD definitely makes any Abbasid takeover from a base in Khurasan a lot less likely than it already was (and it would look like borderline ASB from an ATL perspective, honestly).

 

[goumaister]

This POD definitely makes any Abbasid takeover from a base in Khurasan a lot less likely than it already was (and it would look like borderline ASB from an ATL perspective, honestly).

I won't lie all of the Arab rise to prominence is almost ASB, so with the Sassanid collapse all of their holdings would fall to the Arabs their holding them is another matter to me. Also a counterattack is more fun to write so there is that as well.

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

This POD definitely makes any Abbasid takeover from a base in Khurasan a lot less likely than it already was (and it would look like borderline ASB from an ATL perspective, honestly).

How do you think it might affect conversion to Islam of the Persian literati if there is a royal centre continuing state funded Zoroastrianism and Middle Persian literary culture?

In any case, it might mean Islam (continues to) base its material culture on Greco Roman models, which would be very cool.

 

[Falecius]

How do you think it might affect conversion to Islam of the Persian literati if there is a royal centre continuing state funded Zoroastrianism and Middle Persian literary culture?

In any case, it might mean Islam (continues to) base its material culture on Greco Roman models, which would be very cool.

Hard to say, and it depends a lot if an Iranising court emerges anyway. The Umayyad system was likely not sustainable anyway. Here, they have to deal with a Chinese backed Sassanid Legacy state, driving resources East: Khurasan is going to see more Arabs and a starker polarisation. Perhaps, the West is neglected? (No Poitiers?)
Persians would have an alternative pole. It's a huge divertence.

 

[Madhukar_Shah]

Perhaps, the West is neglected? (No Poitiers?)

As I understand it, Poitiers was the work of the Arab/Berber forces acting relatively independent of the centre, who were there because of the conquest of Iberia. If the Umayyads conquer Iberia, Poitiers or an analogue seems relatively likely. Even Iberia was essentially just conquered with the forces already sent to conquer the Maghreb.



It could definitely be though that forces otl sent to conquer and hold the Maghreb otl are sent instead to khurasan and so the Berber resistance lasts longer? Maybe north Africa stays majority Christian beyond Egypt

 

[Falecius]

As I understand it, Poitiers was the work of the Arab/Berber forces acting relatively independent of the centre, who were there because of the conquest of Iberia. If the Umayyads conquer Iberia, Poitiers or an analogue seems relatively likely. Even Iberia was essentially just conquered with the forces already sent to conquer the Maghreb.



It could definitely be though that forces otl sent to conquer and hold the Maghreb otl are sent instead to khurasan and so the Berber resistance lasts longer? Maybe north Africa stays majority Christian beyond Egypt

You are correct, and I'd guess Iberia is conquered anyway. However, the forces there are going to be less and get even less reinforcements, so that ambitious raids like Poitiers are going to be far less ambitious and deep-ranging. If the Berber revolt happens, Syrians troops may not be available to quell it. Sounds a perfect recipe for an earlier Shiite counter-Caliphate actually.

 

[Glory2Cabinda]

Could Zoroastrianism become more missionary focused has a reaction to Islamic Expansion. Maybe we could see the turkic tribe convert.

 

[Nivek]

The Chinese for talased even harder and nothing changes

 

[Silver01]

The Chinese for talased even harder and nothing changes

considering how talas changed nothing in the shorterm (the anlushan rebellion did) and the arabs tried to punch deep in to the tarrim basis but got destroyed at aksu in 717 resulting in the arabs been expelled for northern transoxiana Ferghana then was lost as well due to support of the Turgesh as for the sassanids from what i know it was actually
it was narseh not Peroz that went the best he can hope for is a rump state in bactria or transoxiana the biggest threat to its survival would be the Tibetans directly by attacking them or distracting the chinise from aiding them

 

[Glory2Cabinda]

considering how talas changed nothing in the shorterm (the anlushan rebellion did) and the arabs tried to punch deep in to the tarrim basis but got destroyed at aksu in 717 resulting in the arabs been expelled for northern transoxiana Ferghana then was lost as well due to support of the Turgesh as for the sassanids from what i know it was actually
it was narseh not Peroz that went the best he can hope for is a rump state in bactria or transoxiana the biggest threat to its survival would be the Tibetans directly by attacking them or distracting the chinise from aiding them

How would this effect the Turks religon wise?

Would they still follow shamanistic traditions?
Follow some sort of Buddhism?
Convert to Zoroastrianism?

Or would Islam prevail in the end?

 

[Silver01]

How would this effect the Turks religon wise?

Would they still follow shamanistic traditions?
Follow some sort of Buddhism?
Convert to Zoroastrianism?

Or would Islam prevail in the end?

Depends on how long does chinise rule of the central asia last how strong is the rump state
Because longer lasting china means Buddhism can spread
The inhabitants of transoxiana were Zoroastrianism with more syncrotemism to Buddhism if the turks after chinise collapse can assimilate to that
Or the some ( of the rump state helps china alot) can covert to Islam

 

[Sarufiyyun]

Depends. Zoroastrianism, specifically of the Zurvanism variety, was seriously discredited with the advent of the Islamic invasions. The Sassanids would be holding a rump state in the north which held more of an orthodox interpretation of Zoroastrianism. They could remain Zoroastrian. The greater likelihood is that once Chinese support falters, they either collapse or are pushed to convert to Islam, much like the Samanids. So you would see a neo-Sassanid empire emerge (possibly) but an Islamic one.