English Canada/French Carolina: A Timeline

[Gabingston]

Part 93: It’s Like America, But South​

Alright, it’s time to go back to South America, which is like America, but South. After the wave of New World decolonization following the Second Global War, South America was now mostly independent (the exception being the Dutch colony of Suriname), albeit still affiliated with their former colonial overlords through diplomatic, royal and cultural ties. With that said, that did not mean that the continent’s future course was set in stone.
For example, there were active separatist movements in some of the countries. In La Plata, the northern, mainly mountainous and more Indigenous part of the country felt completely disconnected from the southern part of the country, which was largely of European descent and held much more power and influence. The distance from La Paz to Buenos Aires, after all, is almost 1,400 miles, as compared to the less than 700 mile distance from La Paz to Lima, the capital of Peru. Speaking of Peru, a similar situation played out there with Chile, which was separated from the Peruvian heartland by the Atacama Desert, with a distance of over 1,500 miles separating Lima and Santiago. Many Chileans wanted to either join La Plata (although the Andes would form a significant barrier) or become an independent nation.
However, before I get to that, I’m gonna go into what’s shaking up in the rest of the continent. As mentioned in previous updates, the Early 20th Century in South America was an era of mass immigration from Europe, particularly from the Iberian Peninsula and Italy. The ports of Cartagena, Salvador, Rio, Montevidéu and Buenos Aires teemed with newly arrived Europeans looking to make a new life in the New World. Many came to the new world to farm, particularly in the Pampas of Southern Brazil and La Plata (and Patagonia, but that’s not the subject of this update), where the soil was pretty much perfect for agriculture. All the while, Brazilians began to migrate into the interior, which was something that the government promoted, to the point where it was being considered to move the capital from Rio to a new location in the interior. Also, one more thing, Brazil finally got around to abolishing slavery at the end of the 19th Century, although that’s not to say that Afro-Brazilians had it easy after they were emancipated. In the north of the continent, oil was discovered in New Granada (particularly in the region of Venezuela), sparking a surge in economic growth and immigration, with cities like Caracas and Maracaibo growing by leaps and bounds. Across the Orinoco Delta in Dutch Suriname, the economy remained mainly agricultural (importing cheap labor from South Asia after the abolition of slavery), but there was speculation of there being mineral resources.
Anyway, back to the main subject of this update, the separatism in Chile and OTL Bolivia. Both countries had independence movements, some wanting to become separate Spanish dominions and others wanting to break off from Spain entirely and adopt Republican governments. However, a new proposal arose: a land swap. You see, the separatist part of La Plata was located in the Andean Highlands and had a mainly Indigenous population… just like Peru. As for Chile, it had more of a European influenced culture and a temperate climate… much like La Plata. Thus, it was proposed for Peru and La Plata to swap their respective disputed territories. The Spanish had swapped territories between the various viceroyalties in their empire in the past, so this wouldn’t be anything without precedent. Referendums in each of the areas (the Andean Highlands of La Plata and Peruvian Chile) showed broad support for the plan, and after some negotiations, a deal was finalized. Thus, on New Years Day of 1936, Peru and La Plata swapped land, with the Andean Highlands going to Peru and Chile south of the Loa River going to La Plata. This gave La Plata a second, much larger coastline and Peru a region that shared the same Andean heritage, thus coming out as a deal that both parties were satisfied with. Thus, the map of South America had shifted significantly without a single shot being fired. We’ll eventually return to this part of the world, but for now, we’ve got more regions of the world to cover. I’ll see you next time.

 

[Gabingston]

Updated Map of South America​

 

[ClockworkDawn]

A relatively peaceful turn over is an interesting turn of events! One wonders if this will lay the ground work for greater cooperation between the Spanish American states? If they manage to convince Brazil to get in, a cooperative and relatively peaceful (thus far) latin America could be a genuine player on the world stage, at least in the South Atlantic/Pacific.

 

[Gabingston]

The next update is going to cover the dark side of this TL.

 

[ClockworkDawn]

Oh boy, am curious what that might mean. Crime? Capitalist exploitation? Genocide? Facism?

So many options!

 

[Gabingston]

I'm linking this video here because A: I'm a big fan of Whatifialthist, and B: As I was watching, there were several points at which I thought "hey, that's similar to where my TL is llikely going". After all, Communism never exists ITTL, and think this video is quite feasible for what would occur in it's absence. Thoughts?

 

[Gabingston]

Also, that effects where I think American politics would head in the 20th Century. I see three main parties/coalitions developing (two of which would win most of the seats, with the third winning some seats).

• The Conservative/Tory Party would be the party of rural areas and traditional upper -class WASPs, generally being socially Conservative and economically varied, with both capitalist elements and a paternalistic bent on social welfare.
• The Liberal/Whig Party would be the party of much of the Middle and Upper-Middle class. The politics would be of a classical Liberal nature, being socially Liberal and fiscally Lassiez-Faire, favoring free trade and limited government. Basically, they're a more mild version of Libertarians.
• Finally, The Labor/Labour Party would be the primary Left-wing party in the country, being the party of the Urban Working Class and Ethnic Minorities (particularly African-Americans). Economically, it would be the party of Labor Unions, thus being Socialist-ish on economics, but it'd likely be much more socially down the middle than OTL's left, with the idealistic lefty wing of the party being at the very least balanced out by the more socially Conservative working-class Catholics and Black Protestants who are more concerned with bread-and-butter issues than with overturning the entire system.

I'd find it most likely that the Labor and Conservatives parties win most of the seats, with the Liberals winning a good handful of seats. It'd be a lot more like Canada or the U.K. (where there is a major third party in each country that can win some seats) than the strict two-party duopoly of the United States. Vote wise, I'd see it being similar to the 1992 U.S. presidential election, where the two largest parties each win around 40%, while the main third party wins 15-20% of the vote. However, this post is assuming that the Commonwealth of America uses the first-past-the-post system, but there's a possibility that the Commonwealth switches to a different, more minor party friendly voting system at some point, which would blow the gates wide open when it comes to political parties. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Gabingston]

Part 94: North America’s Skeletons In The Closet​

Over the past two or so years that I’ve been doing this TL, I’ve focused mainly on the positives, as hey, I don’t want to make this one constant stream of negativity. However, I don’t want to ignore the darker, bloodier side of history ITTL, as just as in our own world, some truly terrible things occurred. So, in a few coming updates, I’ll talk about some of the… less pleasant stuff that has been taking place ITTL, starting with North America.

Commonwealth of America
OTL’s United States has some… very obvious problems regarding its historical treatment towards its racial minorities, specifically regarding its African and Native populations. I doubt that I need to elaborate on it any further, y’all are familiar with what took place (and, depending on your political views, might still be taking place today). So, how would things have been different in a TL where British North America never rebels (which still came very close to happening ITTL, based on the poll from well over a year ago)? Well, it’s better in some ways, particularly regarding the larger of the two groups, but that’s more a factor of geography than of politics.
First, slavery. As talked about in Part 31, slavery in the Commonwealth of America met it’s demise in 1834, where an act to declare all children of slaves born from 1835 on to be free, with slaveholders being paid to free slaves born before that date. While the planter class wasn’t enthused by it, even they saw the writing on the wall, and thus reluctantly agreed to emancipate, and by the First Global War of the 1860s and 1870s, emancipation was pretty much complete.
However, that didn’t mean that the planter class didn’t have any more tricks up their sleeves, because while slavery may be gone, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t other ways of trampling on the Black population, and boy did those sly bastards do just that.
Just because Black people were now free did not mean that they were treated as equals, quite the contrary. While definitely prefrable to slavery, the post-emancipation conditions for the Black population in the former slaveholding provinces were still very, very bad. Oppressive legal and social restrictions were put on Black people, who were more often than not kept from voting, holding office, testifying in court or sharing the same accommodations as their White counterparts. Many were stuck working for the very same people who’d enslaved them, either as sharecroppers or as cheap labor. A large percentage of the Black population moved north and/or west in order to both find work and escape the crushing racism of their places of origin, and while things were definitely better in the North or West than they were down South, the new Black migrants were hardly welcomed with open arms (both because of prejudice and because of labor competition). In short, while Black people in America are better off ITTL than in our own (largely due to the absence of the Deep South leading to an earlier start to emancipation), it’s still far, far from ideal or even good as of the current point in the TL (1920s-30s).
As for the other historically trampled upon ethnic group in America, the Natives, well, it’s better in some ways. The Iroquois got a decent enough deal, getting to keep some of their land in Upstate New York, although their land has shrunk probably to parts of the Finger Lakes region, but hey, it’s better than nothing. Other than that, not a whole lot changes. With the exception of New Zealand, the treatment of the indigenous people in British settler colonies was uniformly awful, and I don’t see that changing a whole lot here. While British expansion in Canada was more organized AFAIK, thus leading to less frontier violence than south of the 49th, the treatment of Aborigines in Australia might have been the worst of any settler colony in the world, with the possible exception of German Namibia. Thus, barring historical British allied tribes (and the Measca, a mixed European-Native ethnic group I mentioned early on in the TL), I’d expect the treatment of the natives in the Commonwealth of America to be absolutely horrendous, which is to be expected for a 19th Century settler colony.

La Floride
Hey, you know how Black people are slightly better off ITTL’s America because of the absence of the Deep South? Well, how about a country that is almost entirely composed of the Deep South. Yeah, slavery is the giant elephant in the room when it comes to the history of the French colony turned independent nation of Florida (or La Floride in French), with extremely wide-ranging effects on Floridian society. Sure, they’ve got some things that are less terrible than OTL’s American South, such as the absence of the One-Drop Rule (which only came into full effect after the Civil War, but has stuck around to the present for some God-forsaken reason) or the illegality of separating slave marriages, it’s still effectively a country where slavery is not just legal for longer than OTL’s U.S. (only ending because of treaty obligations), but where the slaveholding planter class runs the whole show, not just part of it as in OTL’s pre Civil War U.S.
As mentioned in previous updates of mine, slavery in the French colony of Florida ended after the conclusion of the First Global War, in which over 50,000 Afro-Floridians joined the Anglo-American army. Combined with France (who viewed Floridian slavery as an embarassment by this point) accepting abolition as part of the peace treaty infuriated many Floridians, in particular the planter class. While many of the Afro-Floridians that had fought for the Anglos either moved to the Commonwealth or resettled in the recently acquired territories (which is why French surnames aren’t too uncommon among TTL’s African Americans), some of them returned home to a response of unrighteous fury, which was the response towards Afro-Floridians at large. While there was obviously a s**t ton of racism among Euro-Floridians, seeing tens of thousands of Afro-Floridians defecting to the British only inflamed it even further. Many a slaveholder either skirted around the emancipation laws or flat out ignored it, illegally holding many Afro-Floridians in bondage long after the war. Even among those who were freed, they still held a very low status, either as sharecroppers or peasants. This isn’t even to mention the violence that Afro-Floridians faced from their White counterparts, as just in OTL’s American South, lynchings and mob violence was unfortunately common. Many of the same restrictions that were imposed upon Black people in the Southern provinces of the Commonwealth were also imposed upon Afro-Floridians, often to even a harsher degree, in many ways comparable to OTL’s Jim Crow and Apartheid (although Blacks who were free before the treaty often had it somewhat easier). To put it short, Afro-Floridians are in much the same spot that Southern African Americans were IOTL, and said marginalization could last a lot longer in a country composed entirely of the Deep South.
Now, while Whites (3/5ths) and Blacks (1/4th) make up most of the Floridian population, they aren’t the only ethnic groups in the country. For example, just under 10% of the population were of mixed European and African ancestry, a group known as the Creoles, which while originally referring to any colonist in La Floride eventually came to refer specifically to those of mixed ancestry. While many of them were enslaved before the First Global War, there was also a longstanding community of Free POC, much more than IOTL’s American South. Under the French Code Noir, free men of any race were nominally equal, which meant that Creoles could own property and businesses, get education and serve in the military, and many did just that. However, there was a reason that I said “nominally equal”, as just because Creoles were equal to full-blooded Europeans under the law didn’t mean that they were in practice. Many Petits Blancs (Whites who didn’t own slaves, which were the solid majority of White Floridians) viewed Free Creoles as competition for jobs and as inferior (although there was still some intermixing between the two, which is why most White Floridians have distant African ancestry), and Creoles couldn’t vote in elections, regardless of how well-off and/or established they were, something that was only reaffirmed both when La Floride gained more autonomy after the First Global War.
Lastly, there are the various Native tribes and groups of La Floride. While they made up under 5% of the population, it’s still worth mentioning them IMO, just on the basis of them being the first people to inhabit the land now known as The Americas, including La Floride. Now, the French were the only colonial power in The Americas to treat the Natives half-decently IOTL, albeit more because of necessity and a lack of Frenchmen than because of any benevolence towards the Natives. However, the French were in many ways much more willing to negotiate with the Native tribes of the region than other colonial powers in the region, so we’re going to assume that it takes a path that is at least slightly better than, say, the Trail of Tears IOTL’s Southeast.
In what would become La Floride, there were a variety of native tribes in the region, but there are a few that stand out from the rest. These were the Salagui, Mascoqui, Chicachas, Chattas and Séminole tribes, collectively known as Les Cinq Tribus Civilisées, or the five civilized tribes, as they adapted to the encroachment of the Europeans exceptionally well. As a result, the Florida colony set aside a decent amount of land for the tribes, albeit the land that the wealthy planters didn’t want (like much of the Southern Appalachians or the Everglades), but hey, that’s better than than nothing. However, that doesn’t mean that Florida doesn’t have it’s own sordid history regarding their Native people, as A: whenever land disputes arose between natives and settlers, the government almost universally sided with the settlers, and B: the treatment of the plains tribes was just as awful as what you’d find north of the Acansa River.
So, I’ve gone over bot the Commonwealth of America and La Floride’s skeletons in their nation’s respective closets. I’ll probably do another one of these updates soon, but I’ve got other things to do. Until then, however, have a great day.

 

[mrcubfan415]

but there's a possibility that the Commonwealth switches to a different, more minor party friendly voting system at some point, which would blow the gates wide open when it comes to political parties. What are your thoughts on this?

ABSOLUTELY YES. First-past-the-post is flawed in multiple ways. For more info (and possible voting systems to use in this TL), I highly recommend checking out CGP Grey’s videos on voting systems.

 

[Gabingston]

ABSOLUTELY YES. First-past-the-post is flawed in multiple ways. For more info (and possible voting systems to use in this TL), I highly recommend checking out CGP Grey’s videos on voting systems.

I'll consider it, but I don't find it particularly likely that the Commonwealth switches away from FFTP (The U.S. and Canada both use FFTP IOTL). I could see Australia and Patagonia switching to a different voting system (Australia and New Zealand both use different systems IOTL).
However, even if it uses FPTP, the Commonwealth won't be a strict two-party system like IOTL's U.S., there will be a few third parties that win seats as well (much more like Canada or the U.K.). I might do a vote on what voting system the Commonwealth uses ITTL.
BTW, I've seen CPG Grey's videos on voting systems.

 

[Gabingston]

Part 95: The Golden Dozen​

I figure that it’s time to talk more about some of the trends and events that occurred in the two decades following the Second Global War, specifically in the field of economics and culture. So, here it goes.
As I’ve alluded to in past updates, the twelve or so years following the end of the Second Global War in 1916 was a very good time for the victors. Riding high off the enthusiasm and patriotism following the victory in the war, Britain, America and the German States experienced an economic golden age during the Late 1910s and most of the 1920s, which would become known as The Golden Dozen (a term I used in Part 76 to refer to the same time period). During these golden years, the economy soared to unprecedented heights. Industry shifted from wartime production to civil production, as machines used to make ammo and equipment now were being used to make civilian goods, including mass production of Autocarriages, which were no longer just a novelty, but could now be purchased by middle-class families. Construction boomed across the Commonwealth, from things as small as houses and apartments to things as large as towers that soared up to heights of 1,000 feet above the ground. New York and Chicago were particularly interested in the construction of supertall towers, and they both saw massive construction booms during the 1920s (Mount Royal, on the other hand, dictated that nothing could be built that was taller than the namesake hill, which stood at 764 ft). With such strong economic growth, stock markets around the world saw record returns, namely in London, New York and Berlin (the three largest financial centers after the war). This wasn’t just among big wigs wearing fancy hats either, as millions of everyday citizens now had the disposable income to invest in stocks for the first time.
Cities across the Commonwealth of America were growing at breakneck speed, with the greater New York urban area crossing the 10 Million milestone. Mount Royal and Chicago were also two of the 10 largest cities in the world, and Philadelphia and Kirkeston weren’t too far off from that mark. West Coast cities like San Francisco, Oregon City, Tacoma and New Westminster were also drawing a lot of migrants from out east, as land was both cheaper and more plentiful out west. With more disposable income, many Americans were able to take holidays or vacations, and places like the Adirondacks or Jersey Shore saw their tourism industries boom during the 1920s. Art and culture thrived in the big cities of the Commonwealth, as new technologies like recording and electricity were allowing new innovations in the artistic sphere, although I can’t name exactly what it’d be like because of butterflies. These years would become romanticized in American popular culture for decades to come, but alas, all good things must come to an end...

 

[Gabingston]

My next update is on La Floride. I'm a good way through writing it right now, are there any suggestions as to the direction the country takes (politics, economics etc.)?

 

[ClockworkDawn]

My next update is on La Floride. I'm a good way through writing it right now, are there any suggestions as to the direction the country takes (politics, economics etc.)?

Revanchism doesn't seem unlikely, they've gotten their ass destroyed twice in a row by the Anglo-Americans. A civil war is also possible, perhaps between hardline revanchist monarchists against moderates who want to try and rebuild peacefully? A leftist movement could also be possible, especially with the impoverished African class or poorer whites? it seems like a very elitist place.

 

[Gabingston]

A leftist movement could also be possible, especially with the impoverished African class or poorer whites? it seems like a very elitist place.

I've been thinking that there'd be some sort of populist movement among the poor whites to take control of the country from the rich planters. Probably a mix of socialist-leaning economic policy and staunch Catholicism, like something you'd see in Latin America. I could very well see a Floridian analogue to Huey Long becoming popular among working-class whites, who make up the majority of the Floridian population as of the Early 20th Century.

 

[ClockworkDawn]

- snip -

What's the state of labor rights here? How do the Anglo-Americans feel about unions and such?

 

[Gabingston]

What's the state of labor rights here? How do the Anglo-Americans feel about unions and such?

Within the Commonwealth of America, the Labo(u)r Party is on the rise, and is going to get a huge boost one TTL's equivalent to the Great Depression hits in a few updates. I'm sure there are unions, strikes and labor reforms that have taken place within the Commonwealth as industry becomes the dominant sector of the American economy.

 

[ClockworkDawn]

Within the Commonwealth of America, the Labo(u)r Party is on the rise, and is going to get a huge boost one TTL's equivalent to the Great Depression hits in a few updates. I'm sure there are unions, strikes and labor reforms that have taken place within the Commonwealth as industry becomes the dominant sector of the American economy.

Looking forward to it! I hope there's some success of the leftist movement here, that would definitely be interesting. If you wanted to, you could potentially have a leftist movement take on an anti-british tone? "The American workers are exploited by the elite across the sea" or something to that effect? Though with American nationalism never seeming to get off the ground here, that might be a niche message.

 

[Gabingston]

Part 96: Early Years of the Floridian Republic​

Florida, after centuries as a French colony, was now an independent republic. Formed as such due to a compromise between the British/Americans and the French, there were a lot of things to sort out among a population that was used to living as subjects of a faraway king. Now, I’ve already covered a lot of this stuff in Part 81 of this series, but there was a fair deal of stuff that I didn’t have time for, so this is what this update is for.
So, I talked a bit about the Floridian government structure, adopting a federal structure with powers devolved between the Central and Provincial governments, so how about the structure of the government itself? Well, the question of whether to adopt a Parliamentary, Westminster-style system or a system where the head of state was popularly elected (similar to TTL’s Dutch Republic). Along with the debate over local/national government structure, this threatened to tear the new nation apart. However, a compromise was reached where the Head of State (called the Premier) would be elected by the public, but the Head of Government (known as the Governeur) would be appointed by the Floridian legislature. The Premier would govern if his (a woman being Premier may happen in the future, but it’d be a while off from the 1920s) faction controlled parliament, while the Governeur would if the Premier’s faction didn’t. A similar system was adopted in the new Republics in Mexico, Cuba and Hispaniola, following in Florida’s lead. Basically, they adopted something along the lines of OTL’s Semi-presidential system.
Alright, so how about the demographics? In 1900, La Floride had a population of 17.15 Million, and this would grow to 22.84 Million by 1910, 26.53 Million by 1920 and 31.85 Million by 1930. 65.5% of Floridians in 1930 were White, 28.7% were Black, 4.7% Creole (Mixed) and about 1% were from other ethnic groups, mainly Natives and with a small Asian (mainly Indian) community numbering in the tens of thousands. The population of La Floride during the Early 20th Century was beginning to become more urbanized, with a growth in industry beginning during the Second Global War. The largest city of Richelieu now had a population of 2.1 Million, with New Orleans at 950,000 and Villeroyale (which still had that name despite Florida being a republic, they didn’t find it worth changing) surging up to 625,000. Many immigrants from Europe (and settlers from other parts of La Floride) had settled in the Plains in the western third of the country, whether it be to farm and raise livestock or to settle in growing cities and towns like Trinité, Petites Chutes, Vertberge and Granitville. The population of the western plains had surged over the previous decades, now numbering a few million, becoming La Floride’s primary wheat growing region, as well as becoming perfect cattle country (largely at the expense of the native Bison, who went from roaming the plains in the millions to only being concentrated in a few small enclaves). The country was also beginning to expand more into the southern third of the Tegeste province (OTL’s State of Florida east of the Apalachicola River), which was mostly inhabited by native tribes and composed of a giant wetland known as the Pahoqui. Towns like Grosse Pointe, Oquichoubi (located on the lake of the same name) and Biscayne began to grow and attract migrants and settlers. Parts of the Pahoqui were cleared to grow more cash crops, particularly sugarcane (listen, I know that draining the Everglades is an environmental catastrophe, both IOTL and ITTL, but it’s the Early-Mid 20th Century, I’m being realistic here).
Now, the Second Global War had huge effects on La Floride, not just because of the country’s occupation and later independence, but because over 650,000 Floridians died in the war. Most of the soldiers who had died in the war were from the largest segment of the Floridian population, the Petits-Blancs. Largely comprised of farmers (whether owning land or working for wealthier landholders) and working-class laborers, they made up the bulk of the fighting forces in the war, as the upper class was either not fighting or were the officer corps and Afro-Floridians were neither recruited to fight nor particularly keen on serving (for obvious reasons). Many Petits-Blancs had long been resentful of the Grand-Blanc planter class, and said resentment was only amplified by the bloodshed of the war. Well, now that La Floride was independent, they could now have a say in politics. All adult white men (the franchise will be expanded over time, don’t worry) could vote, and most of said white guys weren't particularly wealthy, meaning that working class interests would have a large say in Floridian politics. The White Floridian working class of the era was both left-leaning on economics and staunchly Catholic, so they favored a mix of pro-union, quasi-socialist economic policy without wanting to throw religion into the dustbin of history (and I’m suspecting that socially Conservative yet economically Leftist politics will be much more influential ITTL than in our own). This movement gained popularity among both the rural farmers and among the growing segment of industrial workers, and was beginning to pose a real challenge to the dominant Planter class. However, I’ll get back to that at another date, so until then, have a Merry Christmas, I’ll see you next time.

 

[Gabingston]

Do you guys think that the Commonwealth of America would use OTL's American spelling, British spelling or some combination of the two (like in OTL's Canada)?

 

[sampleswift]

Do you guys think that the Commonwealth of America would use OTL's American spelling, British spelling or some combination of the two (like in OTL's Canada)?

Probably like OTL's Canada. Many of the historical trends of the Commonwealth of America seem to echo Canada tbh.