English Canada/French Carolina: A Timeline
- Thread starter Gabingston
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Part 106: Moon Over Mexico
Part 106: Moon Over Mexico
For this update, I’ll be looking south of the 37th to the newly independent Mexico. I did do a Mexican update with Part 88, but that was rather small, and this will hopefully be more extensive than that one.After having been a Spanish colony for four centuries, Mexico became independent in the aftermath of the Second Global War, in which the Commonwealth of America forced the Spanish out of North America. Upon independence, Mexico was made into a republic, as the Commonwealth did not want the Bourbons to return to North America. Geographically, Mexico stretched from the upper Rio Grande/Bravo valley at over 38 degrees north down to Punta Cometa in Oaxaca, a distance of over 1,500 miles north to south. The country was also incredibly varied in terms of climate and terrain, including everything from desert to jungle to mountains and forests. Along with the diverse geography, the country was far from homogeneous demographically. Once a center of Amerindian civilization with a population of around 20 million (larger than any country in Europe at the time), the native population of Mexico was devastated by the introduction of Old World diseases, particularly smallpox, and plummeted to just a fraction of what it’d been before the Spanish conquest. However, it remained large enough for the Indigenous component of the population in Central and Southern Mexico to remain very large, whether full native or of mixed heritage (Mestizo). Further north, however, the native population was far smaller, and thus was largely replaced by settlers, who were a mixture of Spaniards, other Catholic Europeans (most of whom were Italians) and migrants from further south (who were mainly Mestizo). As a result, the northern half of the country ended up much more European than the more Indigenous south. The immigration to the north would continue after independence, growing both major cities like Monterrey and San Diego and more modestly sized ones like Corpus Christi, San Marcos, El Paso, Las Cruces, Santa Fe, Pitic, Ensenada and Salinas.
The large regional and demographic differences led to Mexico adopting a federal system of government, with each of the different Provinces/Regions having a degree of local government while still being subordinate to the government in Mexico City.
Now, that’s a lot of stuff I’ve talked about before, but I feel the need to go into detail about some things I haven’t talked about. More specifically, I’m gonna talk a bit about Mexico’s economic situation and development. Ok, got it, let’s a go!
After the Spanish conquest, the economy of Mexico (or New Spain) came under the control of a small Spanish elite, with large Haciendas controlling much of Mexico’s agricultural sector and the vast silver and mercury mines being heavily regulated by the crown back in Madrid. Meanwhile, the Mexican political system was run entirely from Madrid, with the Mexicans having little to no autonomy or self governance for most of the colony’s history. While reforms were made in the 19th Century (giving the Criollos equal status to Peninsulares, for example), the Spanish colonies in the 19th Century were on a much tighter leash than, say, the Commonwealth. After the Second Global War and the brief Commonwealth occupation, Mexico had achieved independence as a unified country for the first time in its history. Now, this did come with a bit of a caveat, as the newly independent Mexico (as with the other newly independent North American countries) was in many ways an Anglo-American client state. This was both a boon and a detriment to the new country. On the one hand, American investments flooded into Mexico, building new infrastructure, boosting trade ties and making Mexico very attractive to wealthy Americans seeking to travel abroad. On the other hand, this meant that much of Mexico’s economy fell under the control of American businesses, stifling local industries and leading to a lot of resentment, as if independence didn’t mean anything and it was just a shift in who they were subject to. The first party to rule the newly independent Mexico, the Liga Nacional (National League), was by and large buddy/buddy with the Commonwealth, and the new populist, not exactly pro-Gringo Unión del Pueblo (People’s Union) rapidly gained popularity among the Mexican peasantry. In the case that they eventually win an election or otherwise gain power, I’m sure you can guess what happens next.
As an independent and sovereign nation, Mexico has now officially made it, and regardless of where the future brings this very interesting country, I’m sure I’ll have more to talk about when it comes to Mexico. Until then, however, I must say adios y hasta luego!
Can we get an up-to-date world map please? I’d really like to see how the world has changed since last time we got a map 
(Also, great update as usual. Welcome back!)
(Also, great update as usual. Welcome back!)
I'm not really up for making a full world map right now (I'm saving that for when the timeline reaches the present day), but I'll see if I could do some regional maps.Can we get an up-to-date world map please? I’d really like to see how the world has changed since last time we got a map
(Also, great update as usual. Welcome back!)
This is just a thought, but maybe Leftist forces, should they arise, takes a socialist libertarian bent? Less emphasis on the dictatorship of the proletariat, vs freedom for the people to make choices free from oppressive corporations and governments? Just a thought, might be an interesting turn of events!
Looking forward to the Ottomans, can't quite remember how you left them.
Looking forward to the Ottomans, can't quite remember how you left them.
I haven't really gone into how the political spectrum would've evolved without the French Revolution, because I really have no clue how the absence of such a notorious event would change politics. However, I do know that TTL's Left is staunchly Republican (Left-wing Republican, not something that comes out of an American's mouth every day), such as in Russia, so anti-monarchism is probably a huge part of the Left's platform. I've also been working with an assumption that The West ITTL would be more conservative and religious without the rabid secularism of the French revolutionaries influencing the left, so while there'd definitely be an anti-clerical streak to the Left ITTL (much of The Enlightenment was heavily critical of religion), I'm not sure if there'd be the same "religion is the opium of the people" attitude that came from Marx (an earlier poll resulted in Communism never existing ITTL). In fact, I'm expecting the question of religion to be a big dividing line on TTL's Left, with a more relevant Christian Left butting heads with the Secularist Left that won out IOTL. As for the Libertarian Socialist bent you brought up, I think that'd be interesting, but I don't know how I'd fit that in at this point in the TL.
I like the sound of what you're saying here, it makes a lot of sense. Without the French and American revolutions, perhaps Leftist forces would be less likely to be champing at the bit for revolution and also anti-religious.
I think a German nationalist movement could capitalize on an anti-royalist segment, that might be very interesting. Plus, a united, democratic, and anti-royal Germany makes for an interesting boogeyman for the rest of Europe. "The Royals are all that is keeping the German people apart," maybe. Some similar movement may arise in South America, but that may be potentially isolated from the rest of the world.
I'm definitely enjoying the timeline thus far, and a more Conservative World is an interesting idea. Just trying to add my two cents, hope it doesn't come off as trying to force you into anything.
I like this timeline a lot, but a more conservative world is probably my favorite thing about it, from both a personal point of view and from the point of view of the story. It's intriguing because most TLs end up with more liberal worlds. It's intriguing to me to see a more conservative alternate history, which is a rarity, and a welcome one at that.
Part 107: Gobble Gobble
Part 107: Gobble Gobble
In the two and a half years that this timeline has been running, I don’t know if I’ve ever done an update on the Ottoman Empire, so how about I get that out of the way?The Ottoman Empire by the 20th Century had been around for over 600 years, having begun at the tail end of the 13th Century. The first few centuries of the empire’s existence was one of constant growth and expansion, conquering Constantinople in 1453 (thus marking the official end of the Eastern Roman Empire) and stretching from Yemen to Algeria to Hungary at its height in the 16th and 17th Centuries. Beginning in the 18th Century, however, the Ottomans began to be outmatched by their European counterparts, and they started losing some of their European territories, including most of the Balkans (or Rumelia as the Ottomans called it), culminating in the loss of Greece in the Greek Revolution of the 1850s.
What really kicked off the period of reform, however, was the Ottoman loss in the First Global War. While the military had begun its reforms after the Greek Revolution, it was only part way through by the time the First Global War started. After the war, the Ottoman military went full-on into becoming a modernized fighting force. For example, the old Devshirme system was done away with, being replaced with a standard recruitment system. The military also hired western advisors to aid in the modernization process. Reforms weren’t limited to the military, however, as the legal code was also revamped, replacing the decentralized Millet system with a standardized, religiously neutral legal code. New infrastructure such as telegraphs and railroads were built across the empire, as well as beginning the process of industrialization within the empire. When it came to the structure of the government, the Ottoman Empire was still an absolute monarchy, but there were growing reform movements to turn the empire into a constitutional monarchy, although it was debated to what degree the Sultan would have political power.
While reform progress could be slow and difficult at times, it ended up paying off in the end, as the Ottoman Empire came out victorious in the Second Global War, regaining land from Greece, Bulgaria and Dacia. This brought new vitality and confidence to the empire, giving it the strength to survive further into the 20th Century. What also helped the empire’s prospects at long-term success was the discovery of oil in Iraq and Kuwait, which provided an economic boost to the empire and, assuming it was managed properly, would continue to pay dividends well into the future. Once in a long and seemingly unstoppable decline, the Ottoman Empire had now arrested said decline and was looking to recover at least some of its former glory, and assuming that it keeps its current upward trajectory, the Ottoman Empire could be a force to be reckoned with in the years to come...
Thanks to this TL, I'm kind of flirting with the idea of a surviving Huguenot Florida and/or Brazil.
I'd love to see that (as long as your British America TL doesn't get shafted as a result).
That's something I hadn't considered, I may have to look into how Shiites were treated in the mainly Sunni Ottoman Empire. I'm sure the oil industries would be controlled by ethnic Turks, which would likely be a source of resentment for the Arabs, especially if they don't get much of a benefit from it.
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Part 108: Rebuilding, Revanchism and Revolt
Part 108: Rebuilding, Revanchism and Revolt
While the years following the end of the Second Global War were a time of prosperity and patriotism in the victorious countries, things were significantly less rosy in the losing countries. Not only had they lost many men and seen large parts of their countries be reduced to rubble, but all that pain and suffering was only compounded by significant loss in the peace treaty. This made countries like France, Cisalpina, Naples and Illyria very bitter, resentful and unstable, as they were both looking to regain their former glory and were facing internal unrest.For example, France. France lost over a million men in the fighting, and much of Northern France were reduced to rubble (including parts of Paris itself). They’d lost their access to the Rhine in Alsace-Lorraine and a large chunk of their industry in Wallonia, which made rebuilding the French economy all the more difficult. In addition, France had to pay war reparations to the victors, which added to the already sizeable French debt. All of this led to the Late 1910s and 1920s being a very, very rough time for France…
After the loss in the war, fingers began being pointed in every direction. Some blamed the King for being weak and signing the humiliating treaty (even though the Germans and British had proposed partitioning France if they didn’t surrender), some blamed the generals for not realizing how war in the 20th Century was to be fought. The Left was targeted for criticizing the war, thus lowering morale, while The Right was targeted for being overconfident and not accepting that they couldn’t beat the Germans and British at the same time. Cities like Lille, Amiens, Rouen, Nantes and, of course, Paris had to be in large part rebuilt after the war, and while it would put hundreds of thousands of people to work, it also cost a fortune and a half. As mentioned in Part 85, King Louis-Denis passed away in 1921, being succeeded by his 54 year old son François. Francois, in his coronation speech, stated that his ultimate goal was to retake Wallonia and Alsace and to restore French honor. However, François was not stupid, and he knew that he could not go to war against the Germans anytime soon. Rather than go to war, François looked to achieve French goals through other means, like diplomacy. For example, François knew Britain’s tendency to want to preserve Europe’s balance of power, and thus pursued a rapprochement with The British. François persuaded the British monarch (probably not the same person as IOTL, it’s been 300 years since the POD) to open negotiations, with the ultimate goal of signing a mutual defense treaty against the German states and canceling French war reparations. While he didn’t achieve either goal in full, he did get a non-aggression pact and a reduction in war reparation payments, and boy did he ever need a reduction in France’s financial burden, because there was also a lot to deal with at home…
In Part 85 of this series, I mentioned that France faced troubles in both the economy and in civil unrest, and I’ll go into that in more detail here. The years following the end of the war in 1916 were chaotic and unstable in France. The old status quo (Constitutional Monarchy with the King holding significant political power) lost its credibility after the loss in the war, and debates over what direction to take heading into the coming decades raged. There were three main factions in post-war French politics. First, the reformers. The reformers were in favor of keeping the French monarchy, but reducing it’s scope and handing more power to the Estates-General (which had evolved to become a full-on parliament over the course of the 19th Century) and the Chief Minister (basically France’s equivalent to the Prime Minister), while either limiting the king’s power or making him a figurehead. When it comes to the role of the Catholic Church (still the official religion in France without the revolution), the reformers were fine with the church having a role, as long as it wasn’t completely dominant. Second, there were the reactionaries. The reactionaries wanted France to reclaim her national glory and get revenge on the Krauts, and they wanted it ASAP. Naturally, this would involve curbing the Estates-General in favor of a combination of the King and the Military, as well as restoring more power to the church. Finally, there were the radicals/revolutionaries. While there had been a radical undercurrent in French politics since the Late 18th Century, the radicals had never become as prominent or popular in France as they were in the period following the Second Global War. The radicals were opposed to the continuation of the monarchy, wanting it to be replaced by a republic, as well as a restructuring of French society and fully secularizing the medical and educational systems. Strikes became extremely common, and sometimes turned into full-on battles between striking workers and police. For example, Lyon was the site of strikes-turned-riots in the summer of 1919, with enraged workers occupying the center of the city for three weeks, before the French army put it down. Similar rebellions occurred in cities across France, but none were as large as the Paris Revolt of 1922…
While working on the rebuilding and renovation of Paris, the construction workers were often assigned long hours for underwhelming pay (it’s not like the French had a ton of money at this time). So, what else to do but go on strike? I mean, going on strike is to France what baseball is to America, it’s the national pastime. Well, the strikers and police soon came into conflict, with brawls and fights taking place on the streets of Paris. In May of 1922, one of these brawls turned nasty, as through a chain of unfortunate events and turns, police and strikers ended up opening fire on each other. Sources and first-hand accounts are unclear as to whether the cops or strikers fired the first shot, but rumors and tales of police firing upon strikers went wild throughout France, especially in Paris. Protests and riots erupted in cities all across the country, with a civil war becoming a distinct possibility. In Paris, the strike turned into an all-out rebellion, capturing much of the city and declaring the Cité Autonome de Paris (Autonomous City of Paris).
Having just ascended to the throne the previous year, this was the perfect trial by fire for King François. From the heavily fortified and defended Versailles Palace, François spoke with his advisors and generals as to how the recapture of the capital should proceed. Meanwhile, just a stone’s throw away, the Parisian rebels set up their defenses and prepared for the coming onslaught. While the rebellion had a sizable degree of support in the cities (particularly in the ruined north), the rural areas were still largely a monarchist bastion, and thus weren’t big fans of what was going on in Paris. In July of 1922, the French military officially launched the recapture of Paris. For the second time within the span of a decade, the streets of the City of Light was the site of intense urban warfare, with the city’s rebuilding being set back significantly by the violence and thousands of lives lost in the battle. However, by early September, the rebels capitulated, the leaders exiled, imprisoned or executed and the capital under government control once again.
This would prove the be the peak of France’s postwar strife. After the independence of La Floride as a republic, many of the more moderate republicans emigrated to Florida (particularly to major cities like Richelieu or Nouvelle-Orléans), while more radical republicans who weren’t arrested during the fighting went into exile in the new Russian Republic. However, as a sort of olive branch, the King reluctantly agreed to hand more political power to the Estates-General and the Chief Minister, although the King still had a veto (albeit one that could be overridden with enough votes) and had to provide approval for France to go to war.
In the other major losing countries, there was a similar story. While Spain, Cisalpina and Naples weren’t as devastated by the war as France, they still saw a large degree of instability and turbulence after the loss in the war. For example, the Basque and Catalan minorities in Spain saw their respective independence movements grow rapidly after the war, having become dissatisfied with being subject to the Castilian majority. Clashes between nationalists and Spanish law enforcement became unfortunately common, although this died down when Spain granted more autonomy to Catalonia and Navarra (the mainly Basque region) in 1926. Cisalpina, which was an industrialized country like France, saw labor strikes and urban clashes. Further south in Naples, the economy was still largely agricultural (apart from a small set of industries around the capital), and many in the country still lived as peasants. Neapolitan farmers and peasants continued to emigrate after the war, mainly to Latin America. There were increasing demands to modernize the economy and land system in Naples, but the country wasn’t hit hard enough by the war to see as much chaos as was hitting France and Cisalpina.
Anyway, the years following the war were a time of regrouping for the defeated nations, to get back up on their feet, sort out the stuff they needed to and build back from the destruction and humiliation of the war. As we head into the Mid 20th Century, we will see what the fate of these countries will be, but for now, I’ve got to bid you adieu.
Should this TL have any more wars in Europe, and if so, what wars would you guys like to see? A major, continent-wide war or some smaller conflicts? I need something to work on.