Grey Tide in the East

[zoomar]

Just got this from Amazon and was very pleasantly surprised. A well-written and plausible-sounding history of WW1 that does not include the invasion of Belgium and immediate British entry into the war. While the explanation as to why Britain stayed out of the war sounds a little facile, and I'm still unsure why Italy would have stayed with the central powers, the much shorter WW1 that this book describes sounds quite believable. In essence Germany neutralizes France and hangs a Brest-Litovsk beating on Russia. France bleeds its self silly trying to mount offensives against German defenses in Alsace-Lorraine, and is effectively blockaded by the German, Italian, and Austro-Hungarian fleets. Although concerned about the a German victory, Britain never enters and the US eventually hosts a Peace Conference in 1915/16. France gets essentially a white peace from Germany and Germany gets everything it wants in Russia. Japan gloms on to French Indochina, supposedly to prevent Germany taking it. The plausibility was increased by some skillful blending of actual events and fictional extrapolations taken from memoirs from actual historic figures. Even the dialog seems believable. As a novel it nicely blends big picture descriptions (usually using newpaper reporters) with a number of historically important and unimportant POV characters.

The book is short and lends itself excellently to further side stories or extrapolation of the post war era.

 

[Richter von Manthofen]

I also read this book recently

I like the outcome , but I am critical to some things:

Italy - otl Italy declared its neutrality and had notified Germany (on the 3rd August) of that intent - basically Italy did this without knowing of the breach of Belgians neutrality, so Its hard to believe that Italy sides with the CPs this early. realistic aoutcome is that Italy joins when it sees Germany making progress vs Russia and holding agianst France.

German Fleet:

IIRC even without Britain being at war with Germany it would have "protected" Frances Atlantic coast, so France could concentrate her fleet in the MEd.

Souchon would already be on his way to Turkey (ordered so on the 4th) as Turkey already had allied itself (inofficially) with the CPs (agreement with OE gvmt on 3rd) - So the depicted joint offensive of Soucon + Italy + Austria is an unlikey thing.

Also the Hochseeflotte would NEVER have left the bases in Germany - just in case Britain declared war. Risk too high.

I canreasonble see the Cruisers (incl Battlecruisers) to wage war on the French commercial shipping - but they would to have sail around Britain. - Time is crucial here.

The Austrian fleet is smaller than the French, but also has (currently) a secure base in the adriatic. If and when Turkey gets its Dreads (bought from Britain -- not delivered OTL) The Austruians and Turks might act (much later) against the French. If Italy joins in (early 1915 I think) it might do what is depicted in teh book early in the war.

 

[zoomar]

I also read this book recently

I like the outcome , but I am critical to some things:

Italy - otl Italy declared its neutrality and had notified Germany (on the 3rd August) of that intent - basically Italy did this without knowing of the breach of Belgians neutrality, so Its hard to believe that Italy sides with the CPs this early. realistic aoutcome is that Italy joins when it sees Germany making progress vs Russia and holding agianst France.

German Fleet:

IIRC even without Britain being at war with Germany it would have "protected" Frances Atlantic coast, so France could concentrate her fleet in the MEd.

Souchon would already be on his way to Turkey (ordered so on the 4th) as Turkey already had allied itself (inofficially) with the CPs (agreement with OE gvmt on 3rd) - So the depicted joint offensive of Soucon + Italy + Austria is an unlikey thing.

Also the Hochseeflotte would NEVER have left the bases in Germany - just in case Britain declared war. Risk too high.

I canreasonble see the Cruisers (incl Battlecruisers) to wage war on the French commercial shipping - but they would to have sail around Britain. - Time is crucial here.

The Austrian fleet is smaller than the French, but also has (currently) a secure base in the adriatic. If and when Turkey gets its Dreads (bought from Britain -- not delivered OTL) The Austruians and Turks might act (much later) against the French. If Italy joins in (early 1915 I think) it might do what is depicted in teh book early in the war.

I too questioned the likelihood that the German fleet (or even a large portion of it) would abandon German anchorages or be deployed to blockade French ports and bases or sent to the Med, especially since the Austro-Hungarian and Italian fleets together outclass the French in modern battleships. I think Britain would issue some early ultimata aimed at preventing German use of the Channel and a close blockade of French ports, and if Germany really wanted to avoid war with Britain they'd have to comply.

 

[The True Eurasian_Ti]

I just now got the book, I hope it's as good as you all are saying it is, and I hope the next books in the series are good

 

[Talmanes]

I'll have to check it out. Once I've remedied my misplaced current read (where the A-bomb isn't developed and (long story short) the US does eventually invade Japan-proper.)

 

[Richter von Manthofen]

Quick update.

Bought the Sequels - finished the first part, I am NOT convinced that the US, UK and Germany would have acted as they did here. Started the third part - too soon to say somehing,, but this one looks more promising than part 2.

Too bad they are more like short stries than real novels. There is much that could have been explored deeper ...

 

[zoomar]

I agree that the second sequel about post-war German intrigues and provocation in the Caribbean was a stretch...but I did find if refreshing that, for once, an AH did not lead to a war, but instead there was a diplomatic solution. I enjoyed the Austro-Hungarian side story in the 3rd sequel and found it believable, but I must admit my knowledge of politics in Austria and Hungary is limited. Having Adolf Hitler appear as a minor bit player in German intrigue against Austria was interesting. Unlike some AH purists, I rather like seeing historical characters appear in different roles in AH novels.

I am still hoping for more novels based in this time line. I also like that they are short. Sometime a short story or historical snippet can sound plausible, but when expanded to a full novel the believability disappears.

 

[Richter von Manthofen]

I am not fully finished with the AH-storyline, but I am a bit ambivalent... The Austrian half of the Monarchy is quite believaable - a victorious federalized monarchy would probably hold together, Hungary - maybe, but I doubt about the quarter of the army siding with Hungary. THe Problem is that there are many Austrians living within Hungarian borders - it would be a serious Problem to "give them up". I am not through, but I expect the Croats to have a say in the matter (dissolving the "Ausgleich Croatia Hungary" in a similar manner, but the Hungarians not accepting might be the spart that sets a second great (European) War in Motion? In Transilvania many German settle...

But the really unbelievable thing is, how Germany acts, Willy was rash, but not unintelligent. Alienating one of the few friendly nations... well... IMHO thats where the Story drifts into ASB territory ... Especially to occupation of Austrian territory.

Also the "riots" are quite implausible, the Poles in Austria were the "best treated Poles", Why would they revolt when they see that the Germans treat THEIR poles not (much) better that the Russians did.

AH (Andrew Heller) serves a few cliches about the Monarchy for the Storys sake,

OTOH he has a nice sense of writing a Story (but not so much writing an Alternate History)

BTW going back to the conclusion of the first book, the peace with Russia is overboarding.

Baltic states, scratch
Free (German) Poland Scratch

but the rest of territorial changes is "just too much" and Looks like Ober OST plans - nothing that any halfway sane German would have considered in 1915 (give the Germans, Austrians and Ottomans thier additional piound of flesh, but nothing more)

I doubt even Finland would want to secede in 1915...

The same with the treaty with the French...

I would have accepted the Brie Longwy Region and shifting the border a few dozen Kilometers west too. African and Pacific Bits and pieces too, nut Martinique - why - why would the Germans want THAT piece of real estate. The move is only Logical if you assume that Germany WANTS a war with the US, but WHY? What does Germany want from the US? certainly NOT Texas... Their Relations may not be the best. Could Germany want the rest of Samoa?, Guam?,... (BTW I Somehow expected the Germans making a deal swapping Martinique for US Samoa ...

Sorry for the rant...