No GNW (or “Peter goes South”)
- Thread starter alexmilman
- Start date
Oops, forgot the number of parrots. Will change, thanks. As for the “hero”’s species, as you noticed “boa” would be unrealistic. “The boa constrictor is a member of the family Boidae, found in tropical South America, as well as some islands in the Caribbean.” AFAIK, there are no elephants in any of these places so it will be a “python”: “Pythons are found in sub-Saharan Africa, Nepal, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Southeast Asia, southeastern Pakistan, southern China, the Philippines and Australia”. Python will do as “удав” just fine because they are using exactly the same strangulation methods as indicated by the Russian name. And they are longer (up to 33 feet vs. 10 feet) so, taking into an account that a parrot in question is not of a small variety, 38 parrots seems to fit a python better. No need to deviate from the reality without a good reason. Not sure what do you mean by “fictional” Africa: wasn’t it a documentary? It had an elephant, monkey, parrot, python and all these trees around… Look quite realistic to me. Ah yes, they are speaking Russian but they could graduate from Institute of Patrice Lumumba or some other educational institution in the SU. 😜
Actually, well before Voznesensky, Bret Harte wrote a poem on the same subject.
Are you saying that this was not a documentary????? This comes as a complete shock to me!I meant "IRL Africa but with talking animals in fictional setting"
BTW, what is wrong with talking animals? I already explained where they could learn Russian so where is a problem? Did I miss something like the wrong trees or whatever? Ah, yes, the parrot initially had problems with flying, which, admittedly, is strange, but eventually he learned (“Here he is flying, our eagle!”, if I remember the text correctly). 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Спасибо, поржала. Thank you, it was very amusing to the ROFL degree.
By the way, as a kid with a HUGE stach of Юный натуралист / "Young Nature Lover" magazines, I headcanoned that Udav and Martyshka (Boa and Monkey) were just GIVEN NAMES of these python and chimpanzee respectively
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Now, this is a very interesting idea pointing to the fact that their respective parents were not speciests or sizeists. 😜Спасибо, поржала. Thank you, it was very amusing to the ROFL degree.
By the way, as a kid with a HUGE stach of Юный натуралист / "Young Nature Lover" magazines, I headcanoned that Udav and Martyshka (Boa and Monkey) were just GIVEN NAMES of these python and chimpanzee respectively
The Pacific
118. The Pacific
When the final (hopefully) peace with China had been signed, both sides agreed upon the border by the Amur and neither side had a clear idea what exactly it agrees upon.
The Qing never bothered to explore the region of the lower Amur: it was on a far end of the Manchu territory into which the Chinese were not permitted (at least officially) and of which the Manchu simply did not care.
The Russians also were not there after mid-XVII expedition of Poyarkov of which not too many information survived except that it was sailing on the small boats. This was possible even if the task was not trivial (look at the map below) but to which end? To make the whole thing meaningful, there must be an access from the sea side. There was an opinion that in its lower reaches, Amur, falling into many small arms, is not navigable in the delta, "lost in the sands". This view had to be verified. In 1747, by order of Alexey I, a local expedition was sent to the mouth of the Amur under the command of Lieutenant Alexander Mikhailovich Gavrilov on a small brig "Grand Duke Peter". Gavrilov was given instructions to find out an important question for Russia: can ships enter the Amur from the sea? However, Gavrilov's expedition was unsuccessful: "Grand Duke Peter” could not reach the mouth of the Amur. For the Amur estuary, he mistakenly took the fairly large Bay of Baikal in the north of Sakhalin, got lost in it and could not get out of it for a long time. The report on the results of Gavrilov's expedition got the highest resolution of the Russian emperor: “I'm very sorry. Abandon the issue of Amur as a being useless river.”
The issue would be closed for a long time if not for a single insubordinate officer. Lieutenant of Navy, Nevelskoy, after studying available materials he came to the conclusion that it should be possible to enter Amur from the sea. The problem was to prove it. He was lucky to get support of the recently appointed governor-general of the East Siberia, Muraviev, who send letter to the capital to receive the Emperor’s approval for such an expedition. While waiting for the response, Nevelskoy, who was at that time with his ship, “Baikal” [2] in Petropavlosk-on-Kamchatka, received a copy of the instruction drawn up for him by Muravyov and sent for approval to the emperor. The content of this instruction was as follows:
Since the period of navigation in the Sea of Okhotsk is not long and time may be missed in anticipation of permission, Nevelskoy decided to start the expedition at his own risk, following Muravyov's instructions. On May 30, 1749, Baikal withdrew from anchor in Peter and Paul Bay and headed towards Sakhalin Island. On June 17, the ship reached the northern shore of Sakhalin near Cape Elizabeth. Nevelskoy rounded Sakhalin from the west near Cape Maria (Schmidt Peninsula) and headed along its banks to the Amur estuary. After some maneuvers and with the help of local residents, Nevelskoy managed what Lieutenant Gavrilov failed: to find the entrance to the Amur estuary and find the mouth of the Amur River. "Baikal" anchored in a convenient bay, and Nevelskoy with part of the team on rowing boats entered the waters of the Amur on July 11, 1749. Having examined the mouth of the Amur for few dozens of kilometers up the river, Nevelskoy turned back and went out into the estuary and headed south. Thus, Nevelskoy made the most significant geographical discovery: Sakhalin, which at that time was considered a peninsula, turned out to be an island. And this meant that from the Amur you can swim directly to the south without bypassing Sakhalin from the north - through the Tatar Strait (which was previously considered a bay) getting into the Sea of Japan. The strait between the mainland and Sakhalin Island, only 7 kilometers, is now called the Nevelskoy Strait. On August 1, 1749, Nevelskoy returned to “Baikal”. For some time, “Baikal” saiked off the southwestern shore of the Sea of Okhotsk, clarifying and correcting numerous inaccuracies in the maps, and then arrived at the port of Ayan on September 1, 1749, where Muravyov was by that time. Nevelskoy reported to the governor about the discoveries.
Nevelskoy’s insubordinate actions caused discontent and irritation in Russian government circles. The so-called Special Committee considered his act audacity, worthy of demoting to a sailor, which opinion was reported to Emperor. However, after receiving report from Muravyov, Alexey I called Nevelskoy’s act "brave, noble and patriotic," and even awarded him the Order of St. Vladimir of the 4th degree. The report of the Special Committee was superimposed by a famous resolution: “Wherever the Russian flag is raised, it should not ever be lowered.”
Muravyev got an order to sent Nevelskoy to find a place suitable for founding a settlement in which RAC will be conducting a fur trade. Nevelskoy, who just returned from Moscow and promoted to the 2nd rank captain, got himself busy with the preparations for a new expedition. In the summer of 1749, he sailed on brig "Okhotsk" from Ayan to the Gulf of Happiness. On June 29 (July 11), 1750, he founded the first Russian settlement in this bay, called Petrovskoye Wintering, which for the next three years served as the main base of the expedition and its main supply point. On August 1, 1750, the Nikolaev post (named after N. Muravyev) was founded at Cape Kuegda, which later grew to the city of Nikolaevsk-on-Amur.
Upon receiving the news, Muravyev organized in 1751, under his personal leadership, the first of his expeditions down the Amur. It delivered troops, ammunition and food to the mouth of the Amur River. Expedition included soldiers of regular military units and 800 of the Cossacks going down the river by the barges and rafts.
The following expeditions included not only the Cossacks but also the peasants resettling from the Irkutsk gubernia and Trans-Baikal region supplied with the provision and the things needed for establishing the households. Between 1751 and 1758 67 settlements had been founded with a total population of over 15,000.
_______________
[1] “Order, order! I don’t care about the orders!” Lieutenant Rzevsky
[2] “Baikal" was a small double-deck vessel with sailing armament of the brigantine with full outlines of the hull and an almost flat bottom.
[3] There was a prevailing opinion that Sakhalin is a peninsula (look at the map): a strait was narrow and easy to miss.
“The Amur carries its waves smoothly,
The Siberian wind sings songs to them.”
‘The waves of Amur’
«Приказ, приказ! Плевал я на приказы!»
Поручик Ржевский ‘Гусарская баллада’ [1]
The Siberian wind sings songs to them.”
‘The waves of Amur’
«Приказ, приказ! Плевал я на приказы!»
Поручик Ржевский ‘Гусарская баллада’ [1]
When the final (hopefully) peace with China had been signed, both sides agreed upon the border by the Amur and neither side had a clear idea what exactly it agrees upon.
The Qing never bothered to explore the region of the lower Amur: it was on a far end of the Manchu territory into which the Chinese were not permitted (at least officially) and of which the Manchu simply did not care.
The Russians also were not there after mid-XVII expedition of Poyarkov of which not too many information survived except that it was sailing on the small boats. This was possible even if the task was not trivial (look at the map below) but to which end? To make the whole thing meaningful, there must be an access from the sea side. There was an opinion that in its lower reaches, Amur, falling into many small arms, is not navigable in the delta, "lost in the sands". This view had to be verified. In 1747, by order of Alexey I, a local expedition was sent to the mouth of the Amur under the command of Lieutenant Alexander Mikhailovich Gavrilov on a small brig "Grand Duke Peter". Gavrilov was given instructions to find out an important question for Russia: can ships enter the Amur from the sea? However, Gavrilov's expedition was unsuccessful: "Grand Duke Peter” could not reach the mouth of the Amur. For the Amur estuary, he mistakenly took the fairly large Bay of Baikal in the north of Sakhalin, got lost in it and could not get out of it for a long time. The report on the results of Gavrilov's expedition got the highest resolution of the Russian emperor: “I'm very sorry. Abandon the issue of Amur as a being useless river.”
The issue would be closed for a long time if not for a single insubordinate officer. Lieutenant of Navy, Nevelskoy, after studying available materials he came to the conclusion that it should be possible to enter Amur from the sea. The problem was to prove it. He was lucky to get support of the recently appointed governor-general of the East Siberia, Muraviev, who send letter to the capital to receive the Emperor’s approval for such an expedition. While waiting for the response, Nevelskoy, who was at that time with his ship, “Baikal” [2] in Petropavlosk-on-Kamchatka, received a copy of the instruction drawn up for him by Muravyov and sent for approval to the emperor. The content of this instruction was as follows:
- From Petropavlovsk to go to the northern part of Sakhalin, where to see if there is a closed harbor or a good raid here;
- Determine the entrance to the Amur estuary from the north and explore the northern part of the estuary, especially between Capes Romberg and Golovachev;
- Examine the mouth of the Amur River, the state of the entrance for some length, look for a place to protect the mouth in the area;
- Describe the shores of the Amur and the estuary in geographical and statistical terms;
- Explore the shore of the Sea of Okhotsk and the Gulf of Constantine and bring these places to the clarity and certainty necessary for the safe navigation of ships in the Sea of Okhotsk.
- Determine the state of the southern part of the estuary: to find out whether the belief that Sakhalin is a peninsula [3] is true; if this belief is wrong, then explore the strait separating Sakhalin from the mainland, as well as to investigate whether there is a place convenient for protecting the entrance to the estuary from the south.
Since the period of navigation in the Sea of Okhotsk is not long and time may be missed in anticipation of permission, Nevelskoy decided to start the expedition at his own risk, following Muravyov's instructions. On May 30, 1749, Baikal withdrew from anchor in Peter and Paul Bay and headed towards Sakhalin Island. On June 17, the ship reached the northern shore of Sakhalin near Cape Elizabeth. Nevelskoy rounded Sakhalin from the west near Cape Maria (Schmidt Peninsula) and headed along its banks to the Amur estuary. After some maneuvers and with the help of local residents, Nevelskoy managed what Lieutenant Gavrilov failed: to find the entrance to the Amur estuary and find the mouth of the Amur River. "Baikal" anchored in a convenient bay, and Nevelskoy with part of the team on rowing boats entered the waters of the Amur on July 11, 1749. Having examined the mouth of the Amur for few dozens of kilometers up the river, Nevelskoy turned back and went out into the estuary and headed south. Thus, Nevelskoy made the most significant geographical discovery: Sakhalin, which at that time was considered a peninsula, turned out to be an island. And this meant that from the Amur you can swim directly to the south without bypassing Sakhalin from the north - through the Tatar Strait (which was previously considered a bay) getting into the Sea of Japan. The strait between the mainland and Sakhalin Island, only 7 kilometers, is now called the Nevelskoy Strait. On August 1, 1749, Nevelskoy returned to “Baikal”. For some time, “Baikal” saiked off the southwestern shore of the Sea of Okhotsk, clarifying and correcting numerous inaccuracies in the maps, and then arrived at the port of Ayan on September 1, 1749, where Muravyov was by that time. Nevelskoy reported to the governor about the discoveries.
Nevelskoy’s insubordinate actions caused discontent and irritation in Russian government circles. The so-called Special Committee considered his act audacity, worthy of demoting to a sailor, which opinion was reported to Emperor. However, after receiving report from Muravyov, Alexey I called Nevelskoy’s act "brave, noble and patriotic," and even awarded him the Order of St. Vladimir of the 4th degree. The report of the Special Committee was superimposed by a famous resolution: “Wherever the Russian flag is raised, it should not ever be lowered.”
Muravyev got an order to sent Nevelskoy to find a place suitable for founding a settlement in which RAC will be conducting a fur trade. Nevelskoy, who just returned from Moscow and promoted to the 2nd rank captain, got himself busy with the preparations for a new expedition. In the summer of 1749, he sailed on brig "Okhotsk" from Ayan to the Gulf of Happiness. On June 29 (July 11), 1750, he founded the first Russian settlement in this bay, called Petrovskoye Wintering, which for the next three years served as the main base of the expedition and its main supply point. On August 1, 1750, the Nikolaev post (named after N. Muravyev) was founded at Cape Kuegda, which later grew to the city of Nikolaevsk-on-Amur.
Upon receiving the news, Muravyev organized in 1751, under his personal leadership, the first of his expeditions down the Amur. It delivered troops, ammunition and food to the mouth of the Amur River. Expedition included soldiers of regular military units and 800 of the Cossacks going down the river by the barges and rafts.
The following expeditions included not only the Cossacks but also the peasants resettling from the Irkutsk gubernia and Trans-Baikal region supplied with the provision and the things needed for establishing the households. Between 1751 and 1758 67 settlements had been founded with a total population of over 15,000.
_______________
[1] “Order, order! I don’t care about the orders!” Lieutenant Rzevsky
[2] “Baikal" was a small double-deck vessel with sailing armament of the brigantine with full outlines of the hull and an almost flat bottom.
[3] There was a prevailing opinion that Sakhalin is a peninsula (look at the map): a strait was narrow and easy to miss.
Holy Matrimony
119. Holy Matrimony
1750. Moscow and elsewhere. Grand Duke Peter Petrovich was 22 years old [1] and both his parents and his, now widowed, grandfather faced a task of picking a wife for him. Both Swedish and Danish royal houses had been too close relatives to supply a bride without causing some complications with the Orthodox Church and looking for a bride in the major royal houses in Europe would mean unnecessary close relations and potential obligations. The minor German royal houses looked as the most promised market of the brides but it also mean that Frederick of Prussia, being an uncle to the young Grand Duke, will be involved. Emperor Alexey was not quite happy with such a perspective but it was impossible to exclude Frederick (who after all had a better knowledge of the German royalties than anybody in Moscow except for his own sister) without making it looking as an offensive and causing unnecessary tensions with Prussia.
The only thing that Alexey could do is to have a private talk with his grandson to warn him about the dangers of marrying his mother’s equivalent. After which it was announced that Grand Duke Peter Petrovich is going on a trip abroad to visit his Swedish, Danish, and Prussian relatives and Frederick of Prussia was discretely asked to have a potential bride (or brides) in Berlin ready for … er … review.
Of course Frederick would not be himself if he did not try to outsmart everybody else. His first step in this direction was quite reasonable: to provide a choice of one.
Sophie Marie Dorothea Auguste Luise was born on 25 October 1729 in Kolberg [2] where her father served as a garrison commander. She was the eldest daughter of the eight children born from Frederick II Eugene, Duke of Württemberg, and Princess Friederike of Brandenburg-Schwedt, niece of King Frederick II of Prussia. In 1739, her family took up residence in the ancestral castle at Montbéliard, then an exclave of the Duchy of Württemberg. The family's summer residence was situated at Étupes.
Montbéliard not only was the seat of the junior branch of the House of Württemberg, but a cultural center frequented by many intellectual and political figures. Sophie Dorothea's education was better than average, to the point that she cultivated her skills with great enthusiasm. By the age of 16, she was well-versed in mathematics and architecture, as well as fluent in German, French, Italian and Latin. She was brought up according to French etiquette as custom of that era, but with German bourgeois simplicity. She was known to be thoughtful, organized, strong-willed, constant, and tender. To Frederick she looked as a close to the ideal ambitious candidate capable and, with some guidance, willing to become one more useful agent of influence at the Russian court.
What he was not aware of was her “philosophy”. The young princess early assimilated the views expressed in "Philosophie des femmes" - a poem listed in the notebook of the future empress: "It is not good, for many reasons, for a woman to acquire too extensive knowledge. To raise children in good morals, to run a household, to observe servants, to keep frugality in expenses - that's what her teaching and philosophy should consist of.”
Sophie and Peter met for the first time at a state dinner given in honor of his arrival in Berlin. Having learned that her fiancé's tastes were serious, she spoke about geometry during their first interview. The next day, she wrote a glowing letter to a friend in which she declared that "I am more than content. The Grand Duke could not be more kind. I pride myself on the fact that my dear bridegroom loves me a great deal, and this makes me very, very fortunate." Peter was as happy with the young princess as she was with him and wrote to his mother that: "I found my intended to be such as I could have dreamed of. She is shapely, intelligent, quick-witted, and not at all shy." Within few weeks after the engagement, Sofia Dorothea sent Peter a letter in Russian.
In her youth, Maria Feodorovna was described as "a short-sighted, stately, fresh blonde, very tall, but prone to premature fullness". From morning to evening, she wore an official ceremonial dress. "Even during pregnancy, she does not take off her ceremonial dress, and between lunch and ball, when other women put on the house dress and relax, she, invariably tightened in a corset, is engaged in correspondence, embroidery and sometimes works even with medalist Lamprecht.”
Soon after arriving at Moscow, she converted to the Russian Orthodox Church, took the name "Maria Feodorovna," and was granted the title Grand Duchess of Russia, with the style Imperial Highness. The wedding took place on 26 September 1752. On portrait below she is wearing a red ribbon of the Russian female Order of St. Catherine.
At the beginning, Grand Duchess Sophia was enchanted with her daughter-in-law, about whom she wrote to a friend: "I confess to you that I am infatuated with this charming Princess, but literally infatuated. She is precisely what one would have wished: the figure of a nymph, a lily and rose complexion, the loveliest skin in the world, tall and well built; she is grateful; sweetness, kindnesses and innocence are reflected in her face." Eventually, their relations somewhat cooled down due to an adamant refusal of the Young Grand Duchess to get involved in politics. Maria Fyodorovna devoted her everyday life to the arrangement of her favorite residence where she organized Russia's first literary salon.
To the delight of both her husband and grandfather-in-law she was producing children on almost annual basis thus removing a persistent fear regarding maintaining succession of the Petrian line.
An additional source of delight for her husband was the fact that she got along quite well with his official mistress, Nelidova who was one of her ladies-in-waiting. Together they formed "a real friendly alliance for the benefit of the loved one of both"😉
_____________
[1] Born in 1728, as OTL Peter III
[2] In OTL in 1759 in Stettin, which ITTL is Swedish. The rest is reasonably close to OTL.
“Marriage, to tell the truth, is evil, but it is a necessary evil.”
“Get married no matter what. If you come across a good wife, you'll be an exception, if a bad one, you'll be a philosopher.”
Socrates
“Get married no matter what. If you come across a good wife, you'll be an exception, if a bad one, you'll be a philosopher.”
Socrates
1750. Moscow and elsewhere. Grand Duke Peter Petrovich was 22 years old [1] and both his parents and his, now widowed, grandfather faced a task of picking a wife for him. Both Swedish and Danish royal houses had been too close relatives to supply a bride without causing some complications with the Orthodox Church and looking for a bride in the major royal houses in Europe would mean unnecessary close relations and potential obligations. The minor German royal houses looked as the most promised market of the brides but it also mean that Frederick of Prussia, being an uncle to the young Grand Duke, will be involved. Emperor Alexey was not quite happy with such a perspective but it was impossible to exclude Frederick (who after all had a better knowledge of the German royalties than anybody in Moscow except for his own sister) without making it looking as an offensive and causing unnecessary tensions with Prussia.
The only thing that Alexey could do is to have a private talk with his grandson to warn him about the dangers of marrying his mother’s equivalent. After which it was announced that Grand Duke Peter Petrovich is going on a trip abroad to visit his Swedish, Danish, and Prussian relatives and Frederick of Prussia was discretely asked to have a potential bride (or brides) in Berlin ready for … er … review.
Of course Frederick would not be himself if he did not try to outsmart everybody else. His first step in this direction was quite reasonable: to provide a choice of one.
Sophie Marie Dorothea Auguste Luise was born on 25 October 1729 in Kolberg [2] where her father served as a garrison commander. She was the eldest daughter of the eight children born from Frederick II Eugene, Duke of Württemberg, and Princess Friederike of Brandenburg-Schwedt, niece of King Frederick II of Prussia. In 1739, her family took up residence in the ancestral castle at Montbéliard, then an exclave of the Duchy of Württemberg. The family's summer residence was situated at Étupes.
Montbéliard not only was the seat of the junior branch of the House of Württemberg, but a cultural center frequented by many intellectual and political figures. Sophie Dorothea's education was better than average, to the point that she cultivated her skills with great enthusiasm. By the age of 16, she was well-versed in mathematics and architecture, as well as fluent in German, French, Italian and Latin. She was brought up according to French etiquette as custom of that era, but with German bourgeois simplicity. She was known to be thoughtful, organized, strong-willed, constant, and tender. To Frederick she looked as a close to the ideal ambitious candidate capable and, with some guidance, willing to become one more useful agent of influence at the Russian court.
What he was not aware of was her “philosophy”. The young princess early assimilated the views expressed in "Philosophie des femmes" - a poem listed in the notebook of the future empress: "It is not good, for many reasons, for a woman to acquire too extensive knowledge. To raise children in good morals, to run a household, to observe servants, to keep frugality in expenses - that's what her teaching and philosophy should consist of.”
Sophie and Peter met for the first time at a state dinner given in honor of his arrival in Berlin. Having learned that her fiancé's tastes were serious, she spoke about geometry during their first interview. The next day, she wrote a glowing letter to a friend in which she declared that "I am more than content. The Grand Duke could not be more kind. I pride myself on the fact that my dear bridegroom loves me a great deal, and this makes me very, very fortunate." Peter was as happy with the young princess as she was with him and wrote to his mother that: "I found my intended to be such as I could have dreamed of. She is shapely, intelligent, quick-witted, and not at all shy." Within few weeks after the engagement, Sofia Dorothea sent Peter a letter in Russian.
In her youth, Maria Feodorovna was described as "a short-sighted, stately, fresh blonde, very tall, but prone to premature fullness". From morning to evening, she wore an official ceremonial dress. "Even during pregnancy, she does not take off her ceremonial dress, and between lunch and ball, when other women put on the house dress and relax, she, invariably tightened in a corset, is engaged in correspondence, embroidery and sometimes works even with medalist Lamprecht.”
Soon after arriving at Moscow, she converted to the Russian Orthodox Church, took the name "Maria Feodorovna," and was granted the title Grand Duchess of Russia, with the style Imperial Highness. The wedding took place on 26 September 1752. On portrait below she is wearing a red ribbon of the Russian female Order of St. Catherine.
At the beginning, Grand Duchess Sophia was enchanted with her daughter-in-law, about whom she wrote to a friend: "I confess to you that I am infatuated with this charming Princess, but literally infatuated. She is precisely what one would have wished: the figure of a nymph, a lily and rose complexion, the loveliest skin in the world, tall and well built; she is grateful; sweetness, kindnesses and innocence are reflected in her face." Eventually, their relations somewhat cooled down due to an adamant refusal of the Young Grand Duchess to get involved in politics. Maria Fyodorovna devoted her everyday life to the arrangement of her favorite residence where she organized Russia's first literary salon.
To the delight of both her husband and grandfather-in-law she was producing children on almost annual basis thus removing a persistent fear regarding maintaining succession of the Petrian line.
An additional source of delight for her husband was the fact that she got along quite well with his official mistress, Nelidova who was one of her ladies-in-waiting. Together they formed "a real friendly alliance for the benefit of the loved one of both"😉
_____________
[1] Born in 1728, as OTL Peter III
[2] In OTL in 1759 in Stettin, which ITTL is Swedish. The rest is reasonably close to OTL.
The opposition
120. The opposition
It was not a secret to anybody that the Young Court (unlike the “Young Young Court” 😉) was in opposition to the Imperial Court but the whole issue was rather complicated and multi-faceted.
1. There was the Grand Duke himself who was already in his 40th but possessed close to nothing in the term of the immediate power. Of course, he could blame himself because, while being invited to participate in the meetings of the State Council, he rarely did and when he did, he hardly could contribute anything of value due to his own incompetence. But “the idiot who understands that he is an idiot is already not an idiot” so he tended to blame his father and the ministers. In practice, this meant that he could not promote most of those close to his court and, taking into an account the advanced age of the Emperor, there were plenty of those expecting to improve their own situation in a near future by siding with his successor. Most of the members of this group did not have any ideology or political views and their goals had been purely pragmatic: to get all types of benefits from a new regime, which would require abolishment of many of the existing policies and restrictions. The Grand Duke himself had very few views of his own except that as a monarch he should have a complete freedom of doing whatever comes to his mind.
2. Grand Duchess had her own party, which was mostly and predominantly about being pro-Prussian with a very little attention being paid to the issues Russian. The “platform” was simple and clear: political and military support of Frederick II in all his endeavors regardless Russian economic interests and existing international arrangements. If Brother Fritz decides to occupy Swedish Pomerania and Baltic Provinces, Russia must join and to get its share. Narva and perhaps even Estonia or Finland. If Brother Fritz attacks Austria, Russia must “altruistically” send troops to back him up to prevent strengthening of the Hapsburgs, etc. The party was, understandably, small but expected to attract some “2nd tier” military figures who would look at a war as a way to advance their careers. Strictly speaking, this party and one of the Grand Duke were to a big degree mutually complementary.
3. Ideological opposition. Unlike the first two, this one in theory should have an appeal to the broader ranks of the top level of Russian old aristocracy. The main and only vocal ideologist of this party was Prince Scherbatov.
Intermission. Prince Scherbatov was quite a remarkable person [1]. A member of one of the oldest (and rich) Russian aristocratic families, he got a very good home education, started his career in the typical way by serving in Semenovsky Life-Guards regiment, retired after reaching the rank of a captain and entered the civic service. Being elected into the Legislative Commission [2] he made himself a name as a vocal leader of the old aristocracy opposed to the government.
His platform was quite reasonable from his perspective. Too many people had been (and kept) advancing their careers but what he considered as being servile to those in power (the monarch and the high-ranking officials) and this resulted in a rotten public morale and all forms of depravity which Scherbatov described as «сластолюбие» [3]. Beginning of the evil had been stemming from Peter’s adoption of the Western “luxuries”, which Scherbatov unfavorably compared to the alleged “modest” life styles of the earlier monarchs and aristocrats.
Now, what was the way to fix this sorry state? The proposed program amounted to the following:
The proposed system would eliminate the morale-damaging practices because there would be no need in them: the aristocrats would be getting everything anyway and the nobility would not be able to raise above its “natural” status. The lower classes also would be prevented from sucking up to the temptation to advance themselves in the society.
To be fair, besides this theory, Prince Scherbatov was a prominent historian [6] . Even if his history was excessively emphasizing the actions and personal qualities of prominent figures he published a huge volume of the original materials found in the Church and state archives.
Now, one may assume that Scherbatov’s theory would go against the interests of the Young Court but in practice both Grand Duke and Grand Duchess concentrated on the fact that he is critical of the current state of affairs and that he may be useful in attracting some members of the old aristocracy pushed aside by the “upstarts” so he was welcomed, especially by the Grand Duchess who had some intellectual aspirations of her own .
As for Alexey, he was mostly interested in Scherbatov’s abilities as a statesman so he was promoted into Privy Counselor, served in various stete commissions, made a Senator and a honorary member of the Russian Academy of Science. Nobody prevented him from publishing his works just as nobody was in a rush to implement any of his ideas: state needed capable people and, as long as they were not engaged in any actions, they could keep blabbing.
The Young Court was a different story and, while Alexey so far was not taking any actions, it was under the close watch of the Secret Chancellery. Of course, it was an open question what, if anything, could be done officially about the heir apparent to the Russian throne but ….
_____________
[1] Of course, IITL he is being born couple decades ahead of the schedule.
[2] A failed Alexey’s experiment in using an elective body for drawing a brand-new set of the Russian laws. Prince Scherbatov takes a lot of “credit” for this experiment ending in a spectacular failure after which Alexey used the state apparatus for systematization and publishing of the existing laws and turned to the principle: “monarch is the only source of the laws but he must obey the existing laws”.
[3] In modern Russian the word means obsession with the erotic issues but in his writings it seemingly meant excessive interest to anything that the Prince did not approve: luxury, greediness, making career, etc.
[4] This if from Scherbatov’s utopian book regarding the ideal state.
[5] This idea had been tried in OTL by AI and NI and proved to be a complete disaster on all accounts.
[6] According to S. M. Solovyov (the most prominent Russian historian) the shortcomings of his works were the result of the fact that "he began to study Russian history when he began to write it," and he was in a hurry to write it.
“- It is all the smart ones and the fools are following them. … - It is probably true but if we exterminate all the smart ones, will we get any advantage of being left only with the fools?”
Saltykov-Schedrin “The unique one”
“We don’t need the smart ones. We need the loyal ones”
A & B Strugatsky “Hard to be a god”
“Truth is the highest deity for us, and if the AllMighty wanted to change its image, was not in it, we would turn away from him.”
Prince Scherbatov
Saltykov-Schedrin “The unique one”
“We don’t need the smart ones. We need the loyal ones”
A & B Strugatsky “Hard to be a god”
“Truth is the highest deity for us, and if the AllMighty wanted to change its image, was not in it, we would turn away from him.”
Prince Scherbatov
It was not a secret to anybody that the Young Court (unlike the “Young Young Court” 😉) was in opposition to the Imperial Court but the whole issue was rather complicated and multi-faceted.
1. There was the Grand Duke himself who was already in his 40th but possessed close to nothing in the term of the immediate power. Of course, he could blame himself because, while being invited to participate in the meetings of the State Council, he rarely did and when he did, he hardly could contribute anything of value due to his own incompetence. But “the idiot who understands that he is an idiot is already not an idiot” so he tended to blame his father and the ministers. In practice, this meant that he could not promote most of those close to his court and, taking into an account the advanced age of the Emperor, there were plenty of those expecting to improve their own situation in a near future by siding with his successor. Most of the members of this group did not have any ideology or political views and their goals had been purely pragmatic: to get all types of benefits from a new regime, which would require abolishment of many of the existing policies and restrictions. The Grand Duke himself had very few views of his own except that as a monarch he should have a complete freedom of doing whatever comes to his mind.
2. Grand Duchess had her own party, which was mostly and predominantly about being pro-Prussian with a very little attention being paid to the issues Russian. The “platform” was simple and clear: political and military support of Frederick II in all his endeavors regardless Russian economic interests and existing international arrangements. If Brother Fritz decides to occupy Swedish Pomerania and Baltic Provinces, Russia must join and to get its share. Narva and perhaps even Estonia or Finland. If Brother Fritz attacks Austria, Russia must “altruistically” send troops to back him up to prevent strengthening of the Hapsburgs, etc. The party was, understandably, small but expected to attract some “2nd tier” military figures who would look at a war as a way to advance their careers. Strictly speaking, this party and one of the Grand Duke were to a big degree mutually complementary.
3. Ideological opposition. Unlike the first two, this one in theory should have an appeal to the broader ranks of the top level of Russian old aristocracy. The main and only vocal ideologist of this party was Prince Scherbatov.
Intermission. Prince Scherbatov was quite a remarkable person [1]. A member of one of the oldest (and rich) Russian aristocratic families, he got a very good home education, started his career in the typical way by serving in Semenovsky Life-Guards regiment, retired after reaching the rank of a captain and entered the civic service. Being elected into the Legislative Commission [2] he made himself a name as a vocal leader of the old aristocracy opposed to the government.
His platform was quite reasonable from his perspective. Too many people had been (and kept) advancing their careers but what he considered as being servile to those in power (the monarch and the high-ranking officials) and this resulted in a rotten public morale and all forms of depravity which Scherbatov described as «сластолюбие» [3]. Beginning of the evil had been stemming from Peter’s adoption of the Western “luxuries”, which Scherbatov unfavorably compared to the alleged “modest” life styles of the earlier monarchs and aristocrats.
Now, what was the way to fix this sorry state? The proposed program amounted to the following:
- All “new” aristocracy created by Peter and Alexey must be depraved of its titles and privileges and scaled down to the rank nobility.
- All high positions in the state must be reserved to the old aristocracy due to the historic merits of their ancestors. By showing a personal example of the virtue and truth they are setting an example for everybody else.
- A hereditary monarch must share his power with the old aristocracy, which has a right to overthrow him and replace with a new one [4].
- The low ranking nobility should not have any political power and its members can’t rise to the high positions based on their individual merits.
- The state is led by the virtue, then by the law and only after that by the ruler and aristocrats,
The proposed system would eliminate the morale-damaging practices because there would be no need in them: the aristocrats would be getting everything anyway and the nobility would not be able to raise above its “natural” status. The lower classes also would be prevented from sucking up to the temptation to advance themselves in the society.
To be fair, besides this theory, Prince Scherbatov was a prominent historian [6] . Even if his history was excessively emphasizing the actions and personal qualities of prominent figures he published a huge volume of the original materials found in the Church and state archives.
Now, one may assume that Scherbatov’s theory would go against the interests of the Young Court but in practice both Grand Duke and Grand Duchess concentrated on the fact that he is critical of the current state of affairs and that he may be useful in attracting some members of the old aristocracy pushed aside by the “upstarts” so he was welcomed, especially by the Grand Duchess who had some intellectual aspirations of her own .
As for Alexey, he was mostly interested in Scherbatov’s abilities as a statesman so he was promoted into Privy Counselor, served in various stete commissions, made a Senator and a honorary member of the Russian Academy of Science. Nobody prevented him from publishing his works just as nobody was in a rush to implement any of his ideas: state needed capable people and, as long as they were not engaged in any actions, they could keep blabbing.
The Young Court was a different story and, while Alexey so far was not taking any actions, it was under the close watch of the Secret Chancellery. Of course, it was an open question what, if anything, could be done officially about the heir apparent to the Russian throne but ….
_____________
[1] Of course, IITL he is being born couple decades ahead of the schedule.
[2] A failed Alexey’s experiment in using an elective body for drawing a brand-new set of the Russian laws. Prince Scherbatov takes a lot of “credit” for this experiment ending in a spectacular failure after which Alexey used the state apparatus for systematization and publishing of the existing laws and turned to the principle: “monarch is the only source of the laws but he must obey the existing laws”.
[3] In modern Russian the word means obsession with the erotic issues but in his writings it seemingly meant excessive interest to anything that the Prince did not approve: luxury, greediness, making career, etc.
[4] This if from Scherbatov’s utopian book regarding the ideal state.
[5] This idea had been tried in OTL by AI and NI and proved to be a complete disaster on all accounts.
[6] According to S. M. Solovyov (the most prominent Russian historian) the shortcomings of his works were the result of the fact that "he began to study Russian history when he began to write it," and he was in a hurry to write it.
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why would the grand duke and duchess would even entertain this person, that wanted to have the power to overthrow him and replace him, if he didn't do what they said,
definetly the current heir of russia need to be replace if he even allowed this kind person in his circle
Danish girl would be third cousin to second cousin once removed, and TTL the girl offered is first cousin once removed/maternal first cousin. Of course, хозяин барин*, and keeping the ladies semi-deterministic is better than inventing ATL girls for purposes. But a Danish bride (unless the next Queen of Denmark was an younger sibling to Queen Ulrika of Prussia and Charles XIII) would be less distantly related that the end pick (provided also no Prussian match, as Anna Amalia of Prussia would make a good Queen of Denmark agewise - which makes the Danes more closely related).
And given Charles XIII need to be explained why he has to be unhappy with British attitude to things, looks like he married someone like Fredericka of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg, aka sister to Princess of Wales, so he got himself a "night time cuckoo" re. these matters. (IOTL Fredericka had problem with issue but she also married somebody 30 years older than her).
Fredericka of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg - Wikipedia
*your TL, you're a boss.
You may need to correct a parentage of the girl, the 1729 birth would be what was IOTL born from Charles Alexander of Wurttemberg and Marie Auguste of Thurn and Taxis.
Charles Alexander, Duke of Württemberg - Wikipedia
And yes, I'm a genealogy nerd.
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Because, as I said, he was considered a convenient tool for attracting the old aristocratic and even old noble families or at least was reflective of their ideology in a part related to their position in the state. Attracting important people to the cause was not the same as implementing their wishes after the cause won.
As for allowing him in the “circle”, you did not pay attention: he was made a Senator, held high positions in the government and even made a honorary member of the Academia. In other words, a completely legitimate and respected figure, just as in the OTL during the reign of CII. Nobody seriously considered implementation of his program or the principles he preached: both were too impractical.
And I’m not and her parentage is absolutely irrelevant to the story and, with too many other things being different, so are the lives of her parents. 😜You may need to correct a parentage of the girl, the 1729 birth would be what was IOTL born from Charles Alexander of Wurttemberg and Marie Auguste of Thurn and Taxis.
IOTL that was a stillborn son called Eugen Louis, TTL can be a healthy girl. And completely unrelated as a bonus!Charles Alexander, Duke of Württemberg - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
And yes, I'm a genealogy nerd.
Quite agree with your last sentence. 😂Danish girl would be third cousin to second cousin once removed, and TTL the girl offered is first cousin once removed/maternal first cousin. Of course, хозяин барин*, and keeping the ladies semi-deterministic is better than inventing ATL girls for purposes. But a Danish bride (unless the next Queen of Denmark was an younger sibling to Queen Ulrika of Prussia and Charles XIII) would be less distantly related that the end pick (provided also no Prussian match, as Anna Amalia of Prussia would make a good Queen of Denmark agewise - which makes the Danes more closely related).
And given Charles XIII need to be explained why he has to be unhappy with British attitude to things, looks like he married someone like Fredericka of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg, aka sister to Princess of Wales, so he got himself a "night time cuckoo" re. these matters. (IOTL Fredericka had problem with issue but she also married somebody 30 years older than her).
Fredericka of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg - Wikipedia
*your TL, you're a boss.
Now, think along the narrative lines. Alexey has 2 main requirements for his grandson’s bride:
(a) She should not be a politically active figure like his daughter in law.
(b) She should be able to produce more than one child, aka, being healthy and built properly. Should I retell you are riddle about selection of the Sultan’s wife?
Now, why would I start looking into the biographies of all royal damsels of that period if, with a minor adjustment of the timing, there is a perfect candidate from the real Russian history with the portraits, known habits and everything else?
That said, the damsel is a perfect fit, and there was an ATL kid in the family with just the right OTL birth date (a kid in 1729 was born in Wurtttemberg), the only recommendation was changing the name of the dad/mom otherwise the girl was younger than her own mom which sorta ruined the immersion.
That said, I knew there would not be much opposition to Fredericka of Saxe-Gotha-Altenburg as a wife of Charles XIII, and it runs well in the plot, as well as her being a German nobody.
Some background
120.1. Some background
Judging by @Chernabog90 question, it looks like I took certain things for granted and just dumped the results on everybody’s heads without a proper explanation. My apology and let me give a short explanation.
There was an old nobility, by definition given in CII time the families which were noble prior to 1685, just to give an idea. Then there were the old princely and boyar families tracing they ancestry back to Rurik, Gedemin, the GH, etc. All together they constituted “stolbovoe dvoryanstvo” recorded in the old official documents “stolbtsy”. The pre-petrian reforms were not changing this system to any serious degree and ennobling the commoners was a rare exception rather than noticeable practice.
Regarding aristocracy, Russia had only “princes”, which was covering pretty much all descendants of the princes of pre-Moscow period (and also descendants of various Muslim aristocrats who went to Tsardom’s service). As a result, a “prince” could be a top aristocrat like Golitsyn or a complete social nobody and a really important qualifier was boyar status.
Now, Peter with his methods produced an effect of an yeast thrown into a latrine. Not only elevation into the nobility became a legalized proceds, it became a widely spread process: a person reaching not too high rank on a state service was automatically ennobled and a slightly higher rank would extent this status to all his descendants.
The next thing was introduction of the western titles. Peter retained the old “prince” but added “Graf” (count) and “baron” and these new titles had been granted freely (first, through the HRE and then directly).
The old nobility/aristocracy did not possess any privileges comparing to the new one and obviously the new one was somewhat pushing them aside just because it was raising on the state service and taking positions which traditionally belonged to the old families. Of course, most of the top aristocrats preserved their high status because they were serving in the high positions but a provincial old landed nobility was in a different situation and was facing a stronger competition and losing.
Prince Scherbatov was ideologist of an upper tier of this later group because, while he formally was defending the “rights” of all old aristocracy, he openly considered its court-linked part too corrupt to serve as an example of the moral “virtues”. But in OTL during his work in CII’s Commission he was eloquently insisting that the Russian nobility and especially its top rank has to be cleansed from the new additions leaving only those whose families had been elevated centuries ago due to the noble deeds of their ancestors. Of course, his opponents had been pointing out that there is nothing wrong with the people who had been elevated due to their own merits and the whole dispute was just a massive waste of time (ditto for the whole charade).
Now, why Scherbatov was tolerated and even respected?
1st, he was one if the best educated people of Russia and Enlightenment was already fashionable.
2nd, there was nothing wrong with preaching the high moral values, service to the good of the state, evilness of the corruption, etc. and as long as one was not trying to turn his words into the violent actions it even should be encouraged.
3rd, Russia was already “civilized” enough to allow this type of an opposition especially taking into an account that the most controversial parts of his ideology were formulated in the utopian book: who cared about the fairy tales?
4th, his work as an historian was considered valuable as one of the first serious historic works in Russia: country needed its own history.
Judging by @Chernabog90 question, it looks like I took certain things for granted and just dumped the results on everybody’s heads without a proper explanation. My apology and let me give a short explanation.
There was an old nobility, by definition given in CII time the families which were noble prior to 1685, just to give an idea. Then there were the old princely and boyar families tracing they ancestry back to Rurik, Gedemin, the GH, etc. All together they constituted “stolbovoe dvoryanstvo” recorded in the old official documents “stolbtsy”. The pre-petrian reforms were not changing this system to any serious degree and ennobling the commoners was a rare exception rather than noticeable practice.
Regarding aristocracy, Russia had only “princes”, which was covering pretty much all descendants of the princes of pre-Moscow period (and also descendants of various Muslim aristocrats who went to Tsardom’s service). As a result, a “prince” could be a top aristocrat like Golitsyn or a complete social nobody and a really important qualifier was boyar status.
Now, Peter with his methods produced an effect of an yeast thrown into a latrine. Not only elevation into the nobility became a legalized proceds, it became a widely spread process: a person reaching not too high rank on a state service was automatically ennobled and a slightly higher rank would extent this status to all his descendants.
The next thing was introduction of the western titles. Peter retained the old “prince” but added “Graf” (count) and “baron” and these new titles had been granted freely (first, through the HRE and then directly).
The old nobility/aristocracy did not possess any privileges comparing to the new one and obviously the new one was somewhat pushing them aside just because it was raising on the state service and taking positions which traditionally belonged to the old families. Of course, most of the top aristocrats preserved their high status because they were serving in the high positions but a provincial old landed nobility was in a different situation and was facing a stronger competition and losing.
Prince Scherbatov was ideologist of an upper tier of this later group because, while he formally was defending the “rights” of all old aristocracy, he openly considered its court-linked part too corrupt to serve as an example of the moral “virtues”. But in OTL during his work in CII’s Commission he was eloquently insisting that the Russian nobility and especially its top rank has to be cleansed from the new additions leaving only those whose families had been elevated centuries ago due to the noble deeds of their ancestors. Of course, his opponents had been pointing out that there is nothing wrong with the people who had been elevated due to their own merits and the whole dispute was just a massive waste of time (ditto for the whole charade).
Now, why Scherbatov was tolerated and even respected?
1st, he was one if the best educated people of Russia and Enlightenment was already fashionable.
2nd, there was nothing wrong with preaching the high moral values, service to the good of the state, evilness of the corruption, etc. and as long as one was not trying to turn his words into the violent actions it even should be encouraged.
3rd, Russia was already “civilized” enough to allow this type of an opposition especially taking into an account that the most controversial parts of his ideology were formulated in the utopian book: who cared about the fairy tales?
4th, his work as an historian was considered valuable as one of the first serious historic works in Russia: country needed its own history.
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Giving the eye already being on the young court, our Tzar will hopefully skip the young court entirely and go for his grandchild. But should he come to die before adulthood of said grandchild, will it not automatically result in the young court coming into power? Or is there an option for a regency? And if so, wouldn't there be a civil war depending on the level of support?
So what are their respective levels of support?
So what are their respective levels of support?