Nobunaga’s Ambition Realized: Dawn of a New Rising Sun

I think it would be interesting to have Japan discovering and colonizing Hawaii a few years after the Treaty of Gapan.

Anyway, I have some questions:

- Why Macao has been given back to China if neither Japan nor the Dutch Republic have taken it during the war and China didn't get involved?

- Will the collapse of the Ming dynasty ITTL diverge from OTL?

- What is the status of the Mariana Islands after the Treaty of Gapan? Do Japan or Spain have plans to completely take over them in the short term due to their significantly increased strategical position in comparison to OTL?
 
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I think it would be interesting to have Japan discovering and colonizing Hawaii a few years after the Treaty of Gapan.

- Will the collapse of the Ming dynasty ITTL diverge from OTL?

- What is the status of the Mariana Islands after the Treaty of Gapan? Do Japan or Spain have plans to completely take over them in the short term due to their significantly increased strategical position in comparison to OTL?
prob for hawaii and mariana the japanese would eventually get to them but not this early, since its only the early 17th century.

prob it'd take longer than otl, but the ming is in general stronger than otl. If the spanish shut down the silver trade for whatever reason I don't think the Chinese will have a good time. Prob be another native dynasty taking over, but I'd think they could still stagnante into irrevelance.
 
I think it would be interesting to have Japan discovering and colonizing Hawaii a few years after the Treaty of Gapan.

Anyway, I have some questions:

- Why Macao has been given back to China if neither Japan nor the Dutch Republic have taken it during the war and China didn't get involved?

- Will the collapse of the Ming dynasty ITTL diverge from OTL?

- What is the status of the Mariana Islands after the Treaty of Gapan? Do Japan or Spain have plans to completely take over them in the short term due to their significantly increased strategical position in comparison to OTL?
1. The Dutch and Japanese successfully blockaded Macau to the point where they could've taken it but would've raised the ire of the Ming, and Macau being returned gives the Japanese huge standing as the main middleman between China and Europe.

2. Yes, the Ming dynasty does not have the Qing to contend with and is ruled by a competent emperor. Also, their finances are more stable, making it easier for them to deal with peasant revolts, famines, and natural disaster.

3. None for now
 
For tomorrow's update, I retconned Nurhaci's death from 1626 to 1627. Tomorrow will be about the Jin and Joseon.
I'm always happy to see a new update! Thanks!

Seeing nurhaci taking a significantly different role from otl is very interesting. Also I'm definitely interested in the Joseon too, they're going to be important due to their proximity to the Japanese.
 
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Chapter 49: Joseon Opens Its Doors

Chapter 49: Joseon Opens Its Doors


After the Battle of Sarhu in 1621, Jurchen unity frayed once again as recently incorporated tribes began to break away from the Jin Khanate, a few even swearing allegiance to the Yehe, the tribe that had fought alongside the Ming coalition army. Over the next few years, Nurhaci concentrated on bringing the rebellious tribes back under his fold while strengthening the governance of his realm. He also engaged in intermittent conflict with Ligdan Khan of the Northern Yuan for the allegiance and control of eastern Mongolian tumens. By 1627, however, the Jurchen khan was ready to embark on what would be his last major military endeavor. This time, he gazed upon the lands of the Joseon kingdom, a realm that up until this point had escaped retribution for their border skirmishes with Jurchen tribes and assistance of the Ming. The aging chieftain also saw the conquest of the peninsula as essential to any future Jin invasions of China. Therefore, early in that year Nurhaci would lead an army of 50,000 into Joseon.

The timing of the invasion proved beneficial for the Jin, for Emperor Zhenchun was preoccupied with suppressing peasant rebellions in Shaanxi and addressing local famines and natural disasters throughout China, ensuring that Ming aid to Joseon would be delayed. Nevertheless, despite lacking numerical parity the Joseon kingdom had built upon its military reforms and possessed a formidable if smaller standing army led by the veteran general Gang Hong-rip. The border towns along the Yalu River were also well-equipped with gunpowder weapons, enabling them to provide stiff resistance before falling to the Jin army within a month. Next, Nurhaci marched towards the city of Anju and sent his men across the countryside to spread terror throughout local villages, taking fortresses with relative ease. Anju, however, proved difficult to take and devolved into a prolonged siege, giving Hong-rip enough time to gather an army of 30,000 and depart from the capital of Hanseong at the beginning of April 1627. However, a twist of fate ended the Jin invasion when the main Joseon army was a few days away from Anju. On the night of April 13th, while surveying the recently weakened city of Anju, Nurhaci’s entourage was attacked by several soldiers from atop the walls. One of the soldiers hit the khan with a hand cannon in the neck, instantly killing him and ending his last campaign.​

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Historical ruins of the walls of Anju​

Afterwards, Nurhaci’s eighth son Abkai [1] was chosen by the next khan by the senior members of the Aisin Gioro clan, although in practice Abkai collegially governed the realm alongside his older brothers Daisan and Manggultai and his cousin Amin. Suspiciously, these 4 men immediately forced Nurhaci’s late consort Lady Abahai to commit suicide and follow her husband into the afterlife in what historians today view potentially see as a conspiracy to prevent the accession of Nurhaci’s true designated heir and son with Abahai, Dorgon, to the khanate. In any case, this incident sowed resentment and distrust within the Aisin Gioro clan and eventually led to a coup attempt by Ajige, another of Nurhaci’s sons with Abahai, in 1630 with the backing of Amin. While Ajige would fail and subsequently be executed, Amin and his men survived and continued to fight, plunging the Jin khanate into civil war.

Meanwhile, Joseon underwent its own internal strife around the same time. This was triggered by King Gwanghaegun’s momentous decision to allow direct trade with the Dutch and English [2] in the aftermath of the Jin invasion of Joseon. Gwanghaegun arrived at the decision of ending his kingdom’s isolationist policy after witnessing the state of the northern countryside devastated and economically ravaged by repeated incursions of Jurchen tribes throughout his reign , concluding that the peninsula needed new channels of revenue to fund a more technologically advanced military and increase economic prosperity. These conclusions were reinforced by events to the south,where the Spanish had controversially established Fort San Salvador on Bireitou and the breath of European colonialism began to be felt closer to home. Gwanghaegun’s decision, however, was met with skepticism and even opposition from neo-Confucian scholars in the royal court, particularly the hardline conservatives of the Westerner faction, marginalized since 1589. The latter saw direct contact with the Europeans as an affront to Confucian principles and a violation of Joseon’s tributary duty and subordinate status to the Ming dynasty. Therefore, on April 11th, 1629, the Westerner faction led by Kim Ja-jeom and Yi Gwal attempted to overthrow the king and install his nephew Yi Jong to the throne. However, Gwanghaegun’s loyal guards successfully protected their overlord and arrested the conspirators, who would then be executed. Yi Jong, who himself was not directly involved, was nevertheless forced to take the tonsure and spent the rest of his life in a Buddhist monastery.

This coup attempt not only destroyed the Westerner faction but also weakened the power of neo-Confucian scholars in the royal court, allowing the king to go ahead with his plan unimpeded. Joseon sent emissaries to the Dutch and English and limited trade with the European powers, beginning with the opening of Busan in 1631. Although initially disrupted by the Iberian-Japanese War, trade with Europe greatly benefitted the kingdom, with Joseon baekja, or white porcelain, particularly prized among Dutch and English traders. Trade also gave the kingdom greater access to the latest gunpowder weapons and knowledge of European-style shipbuilding. In time, these along with other variables would lead the peninsular realm to become the pre-eminent power of northern Asia, destined to surpass both the Northern Yuan and the Jin Khanate. Thus, the early 1630s represented a turning point for both the Jin and Joseon.​

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Joseon baekja​

[1]: Regnal name of Hong Taiji IOTL in the Manchu language

[2]: The establishment of Fort San Salvador pushed the Joseon kingdom away from opening trade relations with the Iberian nations.​
 
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Niiiiice, the Joseon opening up would do wonders for their economy, and with the neo-confucianists crushed I could see Joseon being on par with the Japanese, which would be a good thing. I could see Joseon lagging on military tactics because of the relative calm of the Chinese realms and the relative ease of using gunpowder to defeat the nomads.

Also considering Joseon is opening to both the Brits and Dutch I could see them being a neutral point in Asia and be used as the nation to negotiate unless they're part of the fight. I could see Korean workshops making porcelain with English/Dutch/Latin inscriptions which would be very interesting.

Ps what are Joseon and Japan's relations rn and do they trade with each other? They should have good relations considering the imijin war didn't happen.
 
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I'd imagine that the Japanese and Koreans could end up seeing each other as rivals, particularly if both of them want to establish influence in what would have been Manchuria. Once the Jurchen go down, there will be a power vacuum that could turn into a 4 way race between Japan, Korea, the Ming and Russia.
 
I'd imagine that the Japanese and Koreans could end up seeing each other as rivals, particularly if both of them want to establish influence in what would have been Manchuria. Once the Jurchen go down, there will be a power vacuum that could turn into a 4 way race between Japan, Korea, the Ming and Russia.
Yeah probably, but I do think the ming won't be a rival because they won't see it as part of the han realm since it was the qing and Chinese immigration which made it Chinese. Obviously that won't happen ittl. The Ming prob want a proxy that wouldn't amass too much power though, but I could see them favouring Joseon too.

I see Japan being the most dangerous rival especially if they start tapping into the fur trade (I'd think the Koreans would too eventually) and put armies and navies there. I think Russia wouldn't march armies to Manchuria while joseon can which is good for Joseon.
 
So, a thought occurred to me. This question pertains to Japan; How is crime there internally?

Because OTL, what became the Yakuza appeared around the mid-Edo Period. With a Japan that is more open and expansionist, would any equivalent of the Yakuza in this timeline be snuffed out, or form overseas, maybe become more akin to smugglers, maybe out of even non-Japanese people
 
So, a thought occurred to me. This question pertains to Japan; How is crime there internally?

Because OTL, what became the Yakuza appeared around the mid-Edo Period. With a Japan that is more open and expansionist, would any equivalent of the Yakuza in this timeline be snuffed out, or form overseas, maybe become more akin to smugglers, maybe out of even non-Japanese people
Yakuza will probably do like Chinese thongs and triads where they'll become sorta like clubs and societies for diaspora japanese communities worldwide but also have gangs come in and do a multitude of businesses like prostitution, gambling parlors, assassination, racketeering, piracy, spy networks and as you mentioned, smuggling. Places like South East Asia and China would be perfect places for Yakuza to expand given the corruption in China as well as the unstable situation in South East Asia given the Europeans coming to colonize and occupy
 
Yakuza will probably do like Chinese thongs and triads where they'll become sorta like clubs and societies for diaspora japanese communities worldwide but also have gangs come in and do a multitude of businesses like prostitution, gambling parlors, assassination, racketeering, piracy, spy networks and as you mentioned, smuggling. Places like South East Asia and China would be perfect places for Yakuza to expand given the corruption in China as well as the unstable situation in South East Asia given the Europeans coming to colonize and occupy
I think the yakuza prob would have a lot of non japanese in them as a way to climb the social ladder for non japanese in japan. It'd be a rather inclusive organisation for doing something like that lmao.
 
I think the yakuza prob would have a lot of non japanese in them as a way to climb the social ladder for non japanese in japan. It'd be a rather inclusive organisation for doing something like that lmao.

I mean, historically that’s kinda what the Yakuza (or ninkyo dantai as they call themselves IIRC) is - a lot of its membership from what I’ve heard are either burakumin or ethnic Koreans, ie marginalised groups who‘d have had difficulty getting legitimate work so they turn to crime. Given that the burakumin have their origins in the eta of the feudal era - the people who were rendered ’unclean’ by working slaughtering animals, tanning hides etc., for those unaware - I imagine any Yakuza-type group would have them as leading members.
 
Great to finally see how Korea is doing! They seem to be doing quite well for themselves. I foresee a great future for them.
Yeah I hope they become a strong nation to balance Japan and have Japan run into reality checks when needed.
I mean, historically that’s kinda what the Yakuza (or ninkyo dantai as they call themselves IIRC) is - a lot of its membership from what I’ve heard are either burakumin or ethnic Koreans, ie marginalised groups who‘d have had difficulty getting legitimate work so they turn to crime. Given that the burakumin have their origins in the eta of the feudal era - the people who were rendered ’unclean’ by working slaughtering animals, tanning hides etc., for those unaware - I imagine any Yakuza-type group would have them as leading members.
Yep, and I can see them popping up earlier than otl considering how the tokugawas ossified Japan in otl while the nobunagas are diving into modernity ittl.
 
Yeah I hope they become a strong nation to balance Japan and have Japan run into reality checks when needed.
I mean, Japan have run into reality checks already. They won the war against Spain, but it wasn’t an easy fight by any means, and they’ll have learned a lot about what they need to change.
Yep, and I can see them popping up earlier than otl considering how the tokugawas ossified Japan in otl while the nobunagas are diving into modernity ittl.
Exactly.
 
Niiiiice, the Joseon opening up would do wonders for their economy, and with the neo-confucianists crushed I could see Joseon being on par with the Japanese, which would be a good thing. I could see Joseon lagging on military tactics because of the relative calm of the Chinese realms and the relative ease of using gunpowder to defeat the nomads.

Also considering Joseon is opening to both the Brits and Dutch I could see them being a neutral point in Asia and be used as the nation to negotiate unless they're part of the fight. I could see Korean workshops making porcelain with English/Dutch/Latin inscriptions which would be very interesting.

Ps what are Joseon and Japan's relations rn and do they trade with each other? They should have good relations considering the imijin war didn't happen.
Trade relations have been open with Japan the entire time because the Imjin War never happened. Trade has primarily been conducted by the Mouri and Sou clans, although Azuchi is involved in trade with Joseon via Yamaguchi. Diplomatic relations are good, yes.
I'd imagine that the Japanese and Koreans could end up seeing each other as rivals, particularly if both of them want to establish influence in what would have been Manchuria. Once the Jurchen go down, there will be a power vacuum that could turn into a 4 way race between Japan, Korea, the Ming and Russia.
5, the Northern Yuan can't be counted out. More info to come on them soon.
So, a thought occurred to me. This question pertains to Japan; How is crime there internally?

Because OTL, what became the Yakuza appeared around the mid-Edo Period. With a Japan that is more open and expansionist, would any equivalent of the Yakuza in this timeline be snuffed out, or form overseas, maybe become more akin to smugglers, maybe out of even non-Japanese people
I haven't given it much thought tbh. However, if the yakuza or yakuza equivalent were to arise in a couple decades, there would be a smaller manpower pool due to opportunities overseas.
 
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