This post is an extension of my previous ALTERNATEHISTORY.COM thread on black US presidents. Historically, what about a black US president elected from another significant military figure such as USAF Gen Daniel 'Chappie' James ? OTL Gen James passed away from cancer in 1978, but WI he'd lived ? Would his military record, having served as XO of the 8th TFW over Vietnam in 1966-67, base commander at Wheelus AFB, Libya during the early 70s (where he had to deal with Qaddafi), and as C-in-C, NORAD in 1975, as the 1st African-American promoted to 4-star rank, combined with his strong commitment to God and country, have enabled him to run for president perhaps at some point in the early or mid-80s ?
Possible Black Presidents of US
- Thread starter Melvin Loh
- Start date
Diamond
Banned
Perhaps not as President, but what about this: In early 1984, election year, Vice-President Bush gets entangled in some sort of scandal; not a big enough one to warrant serious criminal or civil investigation, but big enough so that Reagan wants a new VP.
He chooses former General Daniel James, currently serving as a Senator in his home state. It would have taken a hell of a lot to make Reagan lose the '84 election. The bigot votes that he'll lose by choosing James as his running mate will be more than offset by black voters jumping ship from their traditional Dem voting to elect a black man to the second highest office in the land.
I think after this, James will probably be to old to make a run for President, but he will have definitely 'prepped' America for the idea of further black VPs or Presidents, making it very possible for Colin Powell to be a front-runner in the 90s.
Maybe a Presidential timeline would look like this:
1980: Reagan/Bush
1984: Reagan/James
1988: Dole/Quayle
1992: Clinton/Gore
1996: Clinton/Gore
2000: Powell/McCain
He chooses former General Daniel James, currently serving as a Senator in his home state. It would have taken a hell of a lot to make Reagan lose the '84 election. The bigot votes that he'll lose by choosing James as his running mate will be more than offset by black voters jumping ship from their traditional Dem voting to elect a black man to the second highest office in the land.
I think after this, James will probably be to old to make a run for President, but he will have definitely 'prepped' America for the idea of further black VPs or Presidents, making it very possible for Colin Powell to be a front-runner in the 90s.
Maybe a Presidential timeline would look like this:
1980: Reagan/Bush
1984: Reagan/James
1988: Dole/Quayle
1992: Clinton/Gore
1996: Clinton/Gore
2000: Powell/McCain
Brooke in 1976?
Nixon brings in Senator Brooke as vice president in 1972 after Agnew runs into problems from when he was Governor. Nixon takes lesson of Agnews ATL impeachment to heart and shuts down CREEP before it gets him in trouble and therefore doesn't get impeached. McGovern carries Massachusetts.... and Mississippi. Brooke is elected President in 1976 as the Democrats retain more Dixiecrats and get less crossover Republicans like Hillary Clinton.
Nixon brings in Senator Brooke as vice president in 1972 after Agnew runs into problems from when he was Governor. Nixon takes lesson of Agnews ATL impeachment to heart and shuts down CREEP before it gets him in trouble and therefore doesn't get impeached. McGovern carries Massachusetts.... and Mississippi. Brooke is elected President in 1976 as the Democrats retain more Dixiecrats and get less crossover Republicans like Hillary Clinton.
Last edited:
Diamond
Banned
wakie said:
You're probably right. I just couldn't think of a viable substitution. Who were the GOP frontrunners 16 years ago? Its all receded into the dim mists of history for me...
On another note, if Bush Sr. had been dumped by Reagan in '84, you can probably say goodbye to any chance of a Bush in the White House anytime soon.
Sen. Edward Brooke
Hey W.K. Willis, I reckon Edward Brooke was another good African-American possible presidential candidate, based on his WWII service with the 92nd BUFFALO Div in Italy, although whether he would've been popular enough to be elected as the 1st black pres in 1976 may've been IMHO questionable given the huge racial tension in such places as Boston (his own constituency IIRC) over school busing and desegregation.
Hey W.K. Willis, I reckon Edward Brooke was another good African-American possible presidential candidate, based on his WWII service with the 92nd BUFFALO Div in Italy, although whether he would've been popular enough to be elected as the 1st black pres in 1976 may've been IMHO questionable given the huge racial tension in such places as Boston (his own constituency IIRC) over school busing and desegregation.
Michael E Johnson
Banned
OTL Bill Clinton was the first "black president" we had.Other than perhaps Jimmy Carter he was the only president that really empathised with and understood black concerns.Plus they were both comfortable around black people and actually have black friends. JFK and LBJ certainly empathised with and understood black concerns and between the 2 of them helped kill Jim Crow but neither approached the personal comfort level with black people as did Carter and Clinton. As far as an ATL black president the only OTL person thats possible is Colin Powell.In order for him to become president though you'd have to make the Republican party more liberal and the United States as a whole less racist-a pretty tall order.
"As far as an ATL black president the only OTL person thats possible is Colin Powell.In order for him to become president though you'd have to make the Republican party more liberal and the United States as a whole less racist-a pretty tall order"
I'd agree that the Republican Party would have to become considerably more moderate for Powell to either want the nomination or have a chance at it, but I disagree that the US as whole is too racist to elect a person like Powell as president. Personally, I suspect the majority of white americans would love to vote for somebody like Powell regardless of his race.
I'd agree that the Republican Party would have to become considerably more moderate for Powell to either want the nomination or have a chance at it, but I disagree that the US as whole is too racist to elect a person like Powell as president. Personally, I suspect the majority of white americans would love to vote for somebody like Powell regardless of his race.
What about J.C. Watts? He left the House in 2002 to spend more time with his family; what if he stays in? Maybe this is FH, but maybe he hangs around long enough to get the GOP nomination in 2008....
Or, you could make Andrew Young, who OTL was an American ambassador as well as Mayor of Atlanta, more politically ambitious. He could obtain a seat in the Senate, build up a great political reputation, and he makes his move in the 90s.
Or, you could make Andrew Young, who OTL was an American ambassador as well as Mayor of Atlanta, more politically ambitious. He could obtain a seat in the Senate, build up a great political reputation, and he makes his move in the 90s.
Just as Nixon could "open up" China and Clinton could balance the budget, I think the Republicans are more likely to have the first black president than the Democrats. If Powell or Watts decided to go for it, a lot of Republicans would vote for them. Enough to win? That's why we have the elections. Blacks running in the Democratic Party are more likely (based on what I've seen over the years) to be of the Al Sharpton mold and alienate many people because of their politics, not skin pigmentation.
Michael E Johnson
Banned
---What about J.C. Watts? He left the House in 2002 to spend more time with his family; what if he stays in? Maybe this is FH, but maybe he hangs around long enough to get the GOP nomination in 2008....----
This raises a larger question-How would a black president do without the majority of the black vote? We know that based on sheer numbers a potential black candidate could easily win the presidency without the majority of black votes.But how would he do politically? For instance imagine if Trent Lott had praised Strom Thurmond under President Powell . The Republican Party still has way too many issues(based on its policies and the kinds of people its got in power and votes for them) with black people for a black candidate put forward by them to be considered anything less than suspect by the majority of the black population.Of course many white-Americans still have too many issues with blacks to be willing to elect them senatorr or Governor much less president. If race didnt still matter so much in America neither of these considerations would matter but we know it does so they both really matter.
This raises a larger question-How would a black president do without the majority of the black vote? We know that based on sheer numbers a potential black candidate could easily win the presidency without the majority of black votes.But how would he do politically? For instance imagine if Trent Lott had praised Strom Thurmond under President Powell . The Republican Party still has way too many issues(based on its policies and the kinds of people its got in power and votes for them) with black people for a black candidate put forward by them to be considered anything less than suspect by the majority of the black population.Of course many white-Americans still have too many issues with blacks to be willing to elect them senatorr or Governor much less president. If race didnt still matter so much in America neither of these considerations would matter but we know it does so they both really matter.
"How would a black president do without the majority of the black vote"
J.C. Watts, being conservative, served well in Congress even though I imagine most African-Americans did not support him b/c of his GOP-ness.
It would probably be a publicity sensation that the black community (or at least its leadership--Jesse, Al, and pals) doesn't think highly of a black Republican President.
J.C. Watts, being conservative, served well in Congress even though I imagine most African-Americans did not support him b/c of his GOP-ness.
It would probably be a publicity sensation that the black community (or at least its leadership--Jesse, Al, and pals) doesn't think highly of a black Republican President.
If J.C. Watts was elected President without a majority of the Black vote, then maybe the Republicans will gradually gain more minority votes due to him being there. It may help Watts to communicate his conservative agenda from the White House that gets him and the GOP mor black votes; then again, it may backfire and Watts is not seen in a favorable light by African Americans.
Michael E Johnson
Banned
---It would probably be a publicity sensation that the black community (or at least its leadership--Jesse, Al, and pals) doesn't think highly of a black Republican President.---
And why is that?I guess its possible to assume that many people would be stunned to know that black people are sophisicated enough to know that just because the president is black he could still be in a party thats not in thier best interest.As I said before the Republican party is full of people and strategies that are not what most black people support-which is why you wont only see most black people not support a black Republican you wont see a black Republican nominated.
--If J.C. Watts was elected President without a majority of the Black vote, then maybe the Republicans will gradually gain more minority votes due to him being there. It may help Watts to communicate his conservative agenda from the White House that gets him and the GOP mor black votes; then again, it may backfire and Watts is not seen in a favorable light by African Americans. ---
This is possible PM - maybe raising it to 25% tops. I think you and I both know there are some African-Americans who would vote for Watts or Powell just because they are black ( A brother in the White House ) but most of us wouldnt.Just because Watts and Powell are black that doesnt mean the party and people behind them are in the best interest of blacks (ie from Affirmative Action,War on Drugs to MLK day and the Confederate flag-imagine Republican candiate Watts at Bob Jones University ) All of this prevents most Africans Americans, many of whom are at least socially conservative, from supporting the Republican party.And since its alot easier to win the presidency with the white South than without it -I dont see any movement here for a long time.
And why is that?I guess its possible to assume that many people would be stunned to know that black people are sophisicated enough to know that just because the president is black he could still be in a party thats not in thier best interest.As I said before the Republican party is full of people and strategies that are not what most black people support-which is why you wont only see most black people not support a black Republican you wont see a black Republican nominated.
--If J.C. Watts was elected President without a majority of the Black vote, then maybe the Republicans will gradually gain more minority votes due to him being there. It may help Watts to communicate his conservative agenda from the White House that gets him and the GOP mor black votes; then again, it may backfire and Watts is not seen in a favorable light by African Americans. ---
This is possible PM - maybe raising it to 25% tops. I think you and I both know there are some African-Americans who would vote for Watts or Powell just because they are black ( A brother in the White House ) but most of us wouldnt.Just because Watts and Powell are black that doesnt mean the party and people behind them are in the best interest of blacks (ie from Affirmative Action,War on Drugs to MLK day and the Confederate flag-imagine Republican candiate Watts at Bob Jones University
) All of this prevents most Africans Americans, many of whom are at least socially conservative, from supporting the Republican party.And since its alot easier to win the presidency with the white South than without it -I dont see any movement here for a long time.couldn't Powell win the majority of the black vote? Although nominally a Republican, he's about in the exact center of US politics, and he seems to be admired by a large part of the black population; plus, he had a fairly wide appeal among the moderate white population as well. As a moderate, though, he wouldn't appeal to either conservatives or liberals. Granted, getting him to run at all would take a pretty good POD, but if our AH goal is to have a black president elected, it seems Powell would be the best bet.
David Howery said:
I think he could, but only if his nomination by the Republican Party reflected a true shift to the center by the GOP and not just a willing "safe" black man being put up by the same right-wingers who support Tom Delay and Strom Thurmond. Otherwise, Powell would have to spend most of his time trying to sound more conservative than he is (and probably lose credibility with blacks and independents) or risk losing the right-wing base he would possibly need to be elected.
Regarding JC Watts, I'm an Oklahoman and know something about him. He's a great speaker, very charismatic, and most of us in his district really liked him...and he got a large segment of the black vote as well. But he would have been a risky presidential or VP candidate. He has some baggage (a child out of wedlock he admits and some questionable real estate deals he doesn't) which would be certainly be used against him, since he makes a big deal about being a moral socially conservative Southern Baptist. Outside of Oklahoma, where being a former QB for the OU Sooners will excuse almost any flaw, he would get crucified by his opponents and the media as a hypocrite. I suspect he knew this, which is why he droped out of politics (at least for now). Also, I think he was fairly miffed by the Bush Adminstration for treating him mainly like a poster boy to be trotted out whenever they needed a charismatic conservative black man to give a stump speech, but not taken particularly seriously in other ways.
"since he makes a big deal about being a moral socially conservative Southern Baptist"
The illegitimate kid isn't necessarily hypocritical; he could admit he made a mistake and he's sorry for it (as it seems he hasd). After all, the Apostle Paul used to be a violent religious demagogue.
Of course, the shady real estate deals could be a problem. What was the nature of these deals?
The illegitimate kid isn't necessarily hypocritical; he could admit he made a mistake and he's sorry for it (as it seems he hasd). After all, the Apostle Paul used to be a violent religious demagogue.
Of course, the shady real estate deals could be a problem. What was the nature of these deals?
Matt Quinn said:
About the kid I didn't say He WAS hypocritical, I said he would be accused of it by the Dems and media pundits who don't have a clue about Christian repentance.
I'm not sure of the details, but I believe it supposedly concerns some apartment complexes he's owned and sold for unreasonable profit - presumably a way for supporters to get around contribution limits I guess.
Michael E Johnson
Banned
---I think he could, but only if his nomination by the Republican Party reflected a true shift to the center by the GOP and not just a willing "safe" black man being put up by the same right-wingers who support Tom Delay and Strom Thurmond. Otherwise, Powell would have to spend most of his time trying to sound more conservative than he is (and probably lose credibility with blacks and independents) or risk losing the right-wing base he would possibly need to be elected.-----
Which is exactly why a black Republican probably wouldnt have much credibility with African-American voters and wouldnt even be nominated by the Republican party to begin with.
---About the kid I didn't say He WAS hypocritical, I said he would be accused of it by the Dems and media pundits who don't have a clue about Christian repentance.----
What is hypocritical here is that the idea of Christian repentance is extended only to other Christians. Not everyone in this nation believes that having kids out of wedlock is wrong or that children from such unions are "illegitimate".But Chrisitans do think it wrongs-except for fellow Christians that "repent" get a pass.As the button I wear on my backpack says-Christians arent perfect-they just want you to be.
Which is exactly why a black Republican probably wouldnt have much credibility with African-American voters and wouldnt even be nominated by the Republican party to begin with.
---About the kid I didn't say He WAS hypocritical, I said he would be accused of it by the Dems and media pundits who don't have a clue about Christian repentance.----
What is hypocritical here is that the idea of Christian repentance is extended only to other Christians. Not everyone in this nation believes that having kids out of wedlock is wrong or that children from such unions are "illegitimate".But Chrisitans do think it wrongs-except for fellow Christians that "repent" get a pass.As the button I wear on my backpack says-Christians arent perfect-they just want you to be.
"Which is exactly why a black Republican probably wouldnt have much credibility with African-American voters and wouldnt even be nominated by the Republican party to begin with"
Totally agree
"What is hypocritical here is that the idea of Christian repentance is extended only to other Christians. Not everyone in this nation believes that having kids out of wedlock is wrong or that children from such unions are "illegitimate".But Chrisitans do think it wrongs-except for fellow Christians that "repent" get a pass.As the button I wear on my backpack says-Christians arent perfect-they just want you to be"
Whatever. It would help if your knees didn't jerk so hard whenever the word "Christian" is mentioned.
Totally agree
"What is hypocritical here is that the idea of Christian repentance is extended only to other Christians. Not everyone in this nation believes that having kids out of wedlock is wrong or that children from such unions are "illegitimate".But Chrisitans do think it wrongs-except for fellow Christians that "repent" get a pass.As the button I wear on my backpack says-Christians arent perfect-they just want you to be"
Whatever. It would help if your knees didn't jerk so hard whenever the word "Christian" is mentioned.