Sports What Ifs.

DTF955Baseballfan

Don Larsen lost a game in the 1956 World Series before his perfect game. Suppose that he hurts his arm or something. And the Dodgers win games 5 and then game 6. This then leads to The Shocker of all shockers in 1958.

Arnold Johnson was basically being used by the Yankees as a farm club with his Kansas City.Athletics the yankees send bob turley who had struggled, Casey stangle losing confidence in him and Don. Larsen, who apparently wasn't as good as they thought, to Kansas City in 1957 for a few better players such as a young Ralph Terry.

The two hurlers improve for 1957 and then really do well especially Turley. In 1958, the Yankees can't trade for them because the Athletics won't make a trade while they are winning and the Kansas City Athletics with a surprising 87 or 88 wins just eke past the Yankees. Even in our timeline, they were only 9 games out of second while the Yankees were 10 games up on the second place team, so it is actually possible, Though, of course, other moves could have made winners of the Red Sox, white Sox, or someone else.

How does this affect the relationship between the Yankees and the Kansas City? Athletics If the supposed farm system of the Yankees wins the pennant? Obviously Casey St we ngel is let go a few years early. In fact, with 3 straight World Series losses, it is possible that he leaves in 1957 only to go over to… Kansas City for 1958.
 

AltSptHst

DTF955Baseballfan said:
Don Larsen lost a game in the 1956 World Series before his perfect game. Suppose that he hurts his arm or something. And the Dodgers win games 5 and then game 6. This then leads to The Shocker of all shockers in 1958.

Arnold Johnson was basically being used by the Yankees as a farm club with his Kansas City.Athletics the yankees send bob turley who had struggled, Casey stangle losing confidence in him and Don. Larsen, who apparently wasn't as good as they thought, to Kansas City in 1957 for a few better players such as a young Ralph Terry.

The two hurlers improve for 1957 and then really do well especially Turley. In 1958, the Yankees can't trade for them because the Athletics won't make a trade while they are winning and the Kansas City Athletics with a surprising 87 or 88 wins just eke past the Yankees. Even in our timeline, they were only 9 games out of second while the Yankees were 10 games up on the second place team, so it is actually possible, Though, of course, other moves could have made winners of the Red Sox, white Sox, or someone else.

How does this affect the relationship between the Yankees and the Kansas City? Athletics If the supposed farm system of the Yankees wins the pennant? Obviously Casey St we ngel is let go a few years early. In fact, with 3 straight World Series losses, it is possible that he leaves in 1957 only to go over to… Kansas City for 1958.
Click to expand...

That would be quite a twist, and we may still see the A's in KC going strong instead of this mess that we have today:



Also, the A's staying in KC (if they do, I presume that Finley won't be the owner) may affect other sports:

1. Without Charlie Finley in the Bay Area in 1970, maybe the California Seals find an owner that can get a new arena built sooner, and they stay there longer (if for good). As a result, the Sharks don't exist today.

2. Baseball expands in 1971 (or 72) instead of 1969 (Missouri Senator Symington doesn't raise cain in this world), and the Pilots don't move to Milwaukee since they have more time to prepare Sicks Stadium for temporary MLB play until the Kingdome is ready.
 
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AltSptHst

I was watching a video about the early-00's Sacramento Kings, and I did some research. I found out something interesting: Apparently, before the 1997 NBA draft, Chris Webber was close to being traded from Washington to the Sonics for Shawn Kemp and C Jim McIlvaine:

www.bulletsforever.com

Things you may not have known about the Webber era

Here are nine things you may not have realized about Webber's time in Washington, including the time he almost got traded for Shawn Kemp.
www.bulletsforever.com www.bulletsforever.com
 

DTF955Baseballfan

AltSptHst said:
That would be quite a twist, and we may still see the A's in KC going strong instead of this mess that we have today:



Also, the A's staying in KC (if they do, I presume that Finley won't be the owner) may affect other sports:

1. Without Charlie Finley in the Bay Area in 1970, maybe the California Seals find an owner that can get a new arena built sooner, and they stay there longer (if for good). As a result, the Sharks don't exist today.

2. Baseball expands in 1971 (or 72) instead of 1969 (Missouri Senator Symington doesn't raise cain in this world), and the Pilots don't move to Milwaukee since they have more time to prepare Sicks Stadium for temporary MLB play until the Kingdome is ready.
Click to expand...
Arnold Johnson would still have his heart attack in early 1960, but a richer team. Only a couple years removed from the World Series with attract other owners. Perhaps Ewing Kaufman buys them early instead of getting the expansion team.

Or Charlie Finley buys them but they are seen as a richer team and they get a stadium, thus getting him to stay.
 

DTF955Baseballfan

AltSptHst said:
That sounds like the best scenario. If you can avoid Finley, that would be great.
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He trying to group to buy someplace. But the Athletics in this scenario are richer and can get a better Stadium eventually.

What him buy Washington instead of Bob Short or whoever owned it before then. Then a few years of his threats later expansion can douse any possible relocation. Well, unless the White Sox move to Milwaukee and then he moves the Senators to Chicago.

The guy really is a wild card. I'm kind of surprised Bill Bartholomay wasn't in the running to buy the Athletics after Arnold Johnson died. It was before the Braves purchase. Although perhaps he didn't think that the team was successful enough to move it to Atlanta and have success. Which means he could be a danger here also.

But Kauffman is available and I don't think Bartholomew would go for the Athletics. The 1958 pennant would be too much of a flash in the pan. He wanted stars like Hank Aaron or, if he had bought the White Sox in 1958 as he almost did, some of the best players on that team.

Edit : which reminds me the White Sox went up for sale in late 1961 after Bill Veeck's health declined. That is probably the best scenario for Charlie finley. He was sort of a protege, he just made Veeck look like a Puritan. Let him have the White Sox and threatened to move them to Milwaukee and back a few times. It gets Bud Seeley out of the way because Finley would own the team up there and it's not likely that he would leave Chicago or the surrounding area, I mean he would figure that people could drive to Milwaukee. So I wouldn't put anything past him.
 
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KingSweden24

AltSptHst said:
I was watching a video about the early-00's Sacramento Kings, and I did some research. I found out something interesting: Apparently, before the 1997 NBA draft, Chris Webber was close to being traded from Washington to the Sonics for Shawn Kemp and C Jim McIlvaine:

www.bulletsforever.com

Things you may not have known about the Webber era

Here are nine things you may not have realized about Webber's time in Washington, including the time he almost got traded for Shawn Kemp.
www.bulletsforever.com www.bulletsforever.com
Click to expand...
Surprised the Sonics were almost willing to move Kemp that soon after their Finals run
 

DTF955Baseballfan

Don Corleone said:
Milwaukee deserves a team, so I wonder what ends up being the Brewers in TTL?
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If the Braves don't move there, Say they move out to California, it would be a good place for Washington, Calvin Griffith, keeping them till 1984 removes a lot of Bud Selig's prestige so he can't take over in the early 90s. He had almost 15 more years to pal around with baseball owners in our timeline.

The white sox are always an option, but he would buy them.
 

WB18

Don Corleone said:
Milwaukee deserves a team, so I wonder what ends up being the Brewers in TTL?
Click to expand...
Well, the Padres almost moved to DC in 1974 before Ray Kroc bought the team, so they could be an option. Maybe the 1977 expansion still happens, but San Diego replaces Seattle (assuming the Pilots stay).
 

DTF955Baseballfan

The 1987 Redskins' Super Bowl win, 1 of 3 by Joe Gibbs, wouldn't change a lot for their team if someone else won. Karryl Green and Art MOnk and others still are Hall of Famers (and I'll still be unsure if I'm spelling Green's name right), certain people obviously have Super Bowl rigns and make nice stories, etc..

But, who else could Doug Williams have gone to who would have had a chance at the Super Bowl and who would have made for interesting PODs?

I thought of the Cowboys at first - if they go 9-6 and become a wild card instead, then beat the inexperienced Saints, overconfident 49ers, and the REdskins or Bears, then Doug Williams really gets in "The Zone" and wins Super Bowl MVP, it probably doesn't let Landry coach any longer. In fact, he probably retires, riding off into the sunset with the most improbable of wins. And Jerry Jones then just rebuilds the Cowboys in his image anyway, including the Herschel Walker trade.

But a number of other clubs needed a quarterback as insurance in '86 and then could have gone all-in on Williams in '87, perhaps also getting George Rogers in a trade, and looked like they were near the top, only for Williams to put them over. Who would be the most interesting? Have the biggest impact? The Bears are another thought - McMahon had tons of injury issues and Payton would finally get his Super Bowl TD - but a 2nd Chicago title in 3 years doesn't impact things a lot.

Of course, QBs have much more of an impact now, but it's interesting to imagine Doug Williams in The Zone (as well as Timmy Smith) for someone else. Or even for an AFC club that can defeat the Broncos, though that might be a slightly harder task. They creamed the Oilers, the Browns didn't have the injuries they did next year, and a few other teams were already set at QB, too.

It's fun to play with the USFL guys coming back to the NFL sometimes.
 

mianfei

One I just thought of is what if the 1974 pre-season NFL strike had lasted long enough to cancel at least some regular season games and shorten the regular season?
  • what would the NFL do if there had been enough time to play a shortened regular season
    • in more recent times, during the pre-season 2011 strike the NFL considered planning for a 14-game season with the full set of division games. What would they have planned if the 1974 strike were unresolved when the season was scheduled to start?
  • how would a strike-shortened 1974 season affect the then-competing World Football League? Would it have strengthened it enough to stay afloat longer?
  • how would a strike-shortened 1974 season affect the planned expansion of the league in 1976?
    • a less unviable competing league would have made it even more a challenge for the Seahawks and Buccaneers
  • would a strike-shortened 1974 season have accelerated the rule changes introduced beginning in 1978 to improve offensive productivity?
  • would a strike-shortened 1974 season have cancelled or accelerated the move towards a 16-game regular season?
 

mianfei

DTF955Baseballfan said:
But, who else could Doug Williams have gone to who would have had a chance at the Super Bowl and who would have made for interesting PODs?
Click to expand...
The only ones, aside from Dallas, seem to be in Southern California.

The Los Angeles Raiders are the most interesting one. The Raiders were relying on veteran Jim Plunkett when the USFL collapsed, and he retired at the end of 1986. If the Raiders had made a pitch for Williams, they might have avoided their decline to 5–10 in 1987 (that is, assuming he showed anything like his Redskins form). The possibility that Williams could have led the Raiders to something better than their 7–9 1988 record, especially as what was between 1978 and 1985 the strongest division in the NFL — in fact by a crude calculation the 1984 AFC West remains the strongest division-season in the NFL since World War II, stronger even than last year’s AFC North — was weakening due to the decline of the Seahawks and Chargers.

The issue with the Raiders is how would Williams have got on with their management and ownership?

The San Diego Chargers — the Raiders’ division rivals —might have considered Williams given that Dan Fouts was in the twilight of his career, but perhaps they were not good enough to attract his attention. After all, the Chargers were 4–12 in 1986, which was the equal third-worst record in the league that season.

The Los Angeles Rams are also interesting. Would they have made a pitch for Williams if they did not gain Jim Everett in a trade with the Houston Oilers? It is possible that Williams was not what the Rams wanted — reading the 1986 press a day or two ago has said to me that the Rams wished to acquire young quarterbacks after having failed in the postseason with numerous aging veterans.
 
skycloud86

skycloud86

skycloud86 said:
skycloud86 said:
League Cup winners if the losing finalists had won (numbers in brackets are League Cup titles won by the team) -

1961 - Rotherham United (1)
1962 - Rochdale (1)
1963 - Aston Villa (1)
1964 - Stoke City (1)
1965 - Leicester City (1)
1966 - West Ham United (1)
1967 - West Bromwich Albion (1)
1968 - Arsenal (1)
1969 -Arsenal (2)
1970 - West Bromwich Albion (2)
1971 -Aston Villa (2)
1972 -Chelsea (1)
1973 -Norwich City (1)
1974 - Manchester City (1)
1975 - Norwich City (1)
1976 - Newcastle United (1)
1977 - Everton (1)
1978 - Liverpool (1)
1979 - Southampton (1)
1980 - Nottingham Forest (1)
1981 - West Ham United (2)
1982 - Tottenham Hotspur (1)
1983 - Manchester United (1)
1984 - Everton (2)
1985 - Sunderland (1)
1986 - Queens Park Rangers (1)
1987 - Liverpool (2)
1988 - Arsenal (3)
1989 - Luton Town (1)
1990 - Oldham Athletic (1)
1991 - Manchester United (2)
1992 - Nottingham Forest (2)
1993 - Sheffield Wednesday
1994 - Manchester United (3)
1995 - Bolton Wanderers (1)
1996 - Leeds United
1997 - Middlesbrough
1998 - Middlesbrough
1999 - Leicester City
2000 - Tranmere Rovers
2001 - Birmingham City
2002 - Tottenham Hotspur (2)
2003 - Manchester United (4)
2004 - Bolton Wanderers (2)
2005 - Liverpool (3)
2006 - Wigan Athletic (1)
2007 - Arsenal (4)
2008 - Chelsea (2)
2009 - Tottenham Hotspur (3)
2010 - Aston Villa (3)
2011 - Arsenal (5)
2012 - Cardiff City (1)
2013 - Bradford City (1)
2014 - Sunderland (2)
2015 - Tottenham Hotspur (4)
2016 - Liverpool (4)
2017 - Southampton (2)
2018 - Arsenal (6)
2019 - Chelsea (3)
2020 - Aston Villa (4)
2021 - Tottenham Hotspur (5)
2022 - Chelsea (4)
2023 - Newcastle United (2)
2024 - Chelsea (5)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Women's League Cup winners if the losing finalists had won (numbers in brackets are League Cup titles won by the team) -

Birmingham City (1)
Birmingham City (2)
Lincoln (1)
Arsenal (1)
Notts County (1)
Birmingham City (3)
Manchester City (1)
Arsenal (2)
Arsenal (3)
Bristol City (1)
Chelsea (1)
Chelsea (2)
Chelsea (3)
 

mianfei

Don Corleone said:
What about the Steelers? Mark Malone was abysmal.

www.pro-football-reference.com

Mark Malone Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft, College | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats for Mark Malone. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, college, draft, and more on Pro-football-reference.com.
www.pro-football-reference.com www.pro-football-reference.com

And they still managed to go 8–7 and miss the playoffs by only one game.
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I was going to mention the Steelers — who had been kept more than competitive by a weak AFC Central since Terry Bradshaw declined — but forgot after procrastinating over the post.

The Steelers of 1987 as it was improved by two wins over the Steelers of 1986, despite very bad play from Malone. If Williams played as well as he did in Tampa or the 1987 postseason, they could well have beaten out Kosarʼs Browns and Moonʼs Oilers, and a run to the Super Bowl might not be a far-fetched hypothesis.
 
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