The eagle's left head

[X Oristos]

One could posit also a split in the popular attitudes between the communes of the old despotate, basically Eastern Sicily and Calabria and more recent additions. Syracuse is part of the despotate since 1282. Palermo for less than 20 years.

At this point Messina's attitude is important. After the initial peace with Charles II was signed, the city has prospered. Capital has been accumulated and ambition must have increased. Barcelona may have been a decent equivalent.

The question is also perception of political weakness. Conveniently the Aragonese are tied down at the moment in the fighting with Castille but Castille is also in the middle of civil war.

I wouldn't be too worried about the Aragonese. Aragon suffered more than Castile in the War of the Two Pedros. "Conflict in Fourteenth-Century Iberia Aragon vs. Castile and the War of the Two Pedros" mentions that the Kingdom of Valencia and the border communes of Aragon suffered significantly. It seems that even after the war, central authority was weak even in Catalonia, since old feuds caused a rise on street riots and assassinations. Peter III issued royal decrees with demands that these feuds end, but they continued regardless.

In 1367, then Peter of Castile tried to regain his crown with an Anglo-Gascon army, Peter of Aragon was afraid that the Black Prince would invade Aragon as well. He was afraid of a renewed castilian invasion until his enemy died in 1369. His policy in 1367-69 was one of vigilance, reinforcing his borders and remiding the border towns of supporting his garrisons.

Post-1367 Peter of Aragon lacked a surplus to repair his defences at the border. He had to demolish a number of castles that he lacked the funds to repair them, even though it was an unpopular decision. Peter also had to declare that some of the areas that were devasted the most, had a tax break of 1-10 years.

The Aragonese also dealth with the issue of the roaming Free Companies. Even in 1370 he had to convince the Cortes of Catalonia to send 700 heavy cavalry and 700 crossbowmen to the north border to patrol against the brigands. Back in 1367 he was in an even worse situation with urban militas protecting the Pyrenees.

Lastly, there is the matter of Sardinia. Marianus of Arborea had restarted the war in 1365 and in 1368 he defeated an aragonese invasion. If anything, Sardinia would be a priority.

Overall, considering the OTL condition of the aragonese realm, I doubt that nobles and communes would shoulder the expenses of a major war with a peer power. Aragon is neutralized for good.

In mid 1360s roughly 400,000 may not be inaccurate given the likely cost of the Venetian campaign in the war of Saint Titus.

With Crete included ? Not that it would make a huge difference, just curious.

 

[Nuraghe]

At this point Messina's attitude is important. After the initial peace with Charles II was signed, the city has prospered. Capital has been accumulated and ambition must have increased. Barcelona may have been a decent equivalent.


I wouldn't be too worried about the Aragonese. Aragon suffered more than Castile in the War of the Two Pedros. "Conflict in Fourteenth-Century Iberia Aragon vs. Castile and the War of the Two Pedros" mentions that the Kingdom of Valencia and the border communes of Aragon suffered significantly. It seems that even after the war, central authority was weak even in Catalonia, since old feuds caused a rise on street riots and assassinations. Peter III issued royal decrees with demands that these feuds end, but they continued regardless.

In 1367, then Peter of Castile tried to regain his crown with an Anglo-Gascon army, Peter of Aragon was afraid that the Black Prince would invade Aragon as well. He was afraid of a renewed castilian invasion until his enemy died in 1369. His policy in 1367-69 was one of vigilance, reinforcing his borders and remiding the border towns of supporting his garrisons.

Post-1367 Peter III lacked a surplus to repair his defences at the border. He had to demolish a number of castles that he lacked the funds to repair them, even though it was an unpopular decision. Peter also had to declare that some of the areas that were devasted the most, had a tax break of 1-10 years.

The Aragonese also dealth with the issue of the roaming Free Companies. Even in 1370 he had to convince the Cortes of Catalonia to send 700 heavy cavalry and 700 crossbowmen to the north border to patrol against the brigands. Back in 1367 he was in an even worse situation with urban militas protecting the Pyrenees.

Lastly, there is the matter of Sardinia. Marianus of Arborea had restarted the war in 1365 and in 1368 he defeated an aragonese invasion. If anything, Sardinia would be a priority.

Overall, considering the OTL condition of the aragonese realm, I doubt that nobles and communes would shoulder the expenses of a major war with a peer power. Aragon is neutralized for good.


With Crete included ? Not that it would make a huge difference, just curious.

Well I can add a little something about Sardinia, since we are talking about my home, technically after the peace of Sanluri, Martino obtained the support of Urban V to definitively conclude the matter, taking advantage of the war of the two Peters, this allowed the judge to besiege again Cagliari, occupy Villa di Chiesa ( today's Iglesias ) and try to remove control of the port of Alghero, only after the end of the war against Castile, the king of Aragon was able to gather sufficient forces to oppose the judge, and launch an expedition under the leadership of Pedro Martinez de Luna, who led an army under the walls of Oristano, laying siege to it, the army composed of Catalan-Aragonese, was trapped by the combined attack of Mariano and his son Ugone ( future judge ), who also killed de Luna himself on the field, in the following two years, Mariano occupied the last pro-Aragonese strongholds, including Sassari in 1370, and at the same time he sent an embassy to Avignon, to ask the Pope to act as mediator in his " dispute" with Aragon ( with the support of illustrious figures of the time such as Catherine of Siena and various prelates ) even if technically the real balance in the conflict will be the Doria family, who are the second most important landowners in Sardinia ( after Mariano himself ) and control a large part of the eastern territories of the old Giudicato of Torres

 

[Quinkana]

They can... then the Serbs killed Alexandros Philanthropenos elder brother and Alexandros is katepano of Greece...

Considering that the Lascarids aren't fighting a united Serb polity they can shift back and forth between fighting Venice and the Serbs when they want to, as the Serbs are a lot less able to resist due to its rapid decentralisation.

I think focusing on Venice now is more important rn. The Serenissima has the capacity to destroy the Despotate, the main problem is convincing Messina.

At this point Messina's attitude is important. After the initial peace with Charles II was signed, the city has prospered. Capital has been accumulated and ambition must have increased. Barcelona may have been a decent equivalent.

I agree. I think that if Venice acts with too much belligerence, ie. destroying towns around the trade routes the Messinian merchants use, the Parliament will act against Venice and allow the political capital for the new Empire to decisively win against Venice.

Normally I'd be fine with the Lascarids being knocked down a peg or two, but this is the time when states have to be lucky.

 

[goumaister]

That just wouldn’t fly. Adrienne and her husband are just as much unknown quantities as baby Theodore. They are just teenagers themselves without any noticeable achievements or political agenda. They have not the kind of personal appeal with the key stakeholders for them to pull such a powergrab. Even in the good old days of the ERE itself, gals don’t just supersede their brothers, nevertheless in the Latin tradition of agnatic-cognatic primogeniture. Superseding Theodore is flat out asking for trouble.Either you outright kill Theodore in a coup/assassination or he will come back to reclaim what is his if he is allowed to live. That said, i suspect Theodore or any potential progenies of his will perish(babies die all the time) and give way fir Adrienne’s accession.

Well I get your point. I argue that the newly wed could make a power grab firstly cause Theodore II is a baby and secondly and most importantly cause I like intrigue. They may wait till they become adults to do so as Ioannes will have the backing of his house and maybe even some other Italiote families. Though what I expect is a clash with Philanthopenos clan for the catepanate of Hellas. As royals now the Griphons could push for better positions now it is up to the regency and who will participate in it to see the power struggle.

Now on the regency part. We haven't talked about it a lot. I mean Andrianne the matriarch , Agnes the basilomitor (I mean king's mother in greeklish) the Catepanate of Hellas are given. Now who else? Chrysaphis the navy's admiral? Buas? Gryphon the father of the groom (I don't recall his name)? All of them? What about representatives from the local parliaments? I would like to see some clashes inside the regency for personal reasons as until now all work for the best of the realm which is great but some of them would see other decisions as best for the future.

Assuming Sicily doesn’t just blow up due to the regency, Venice’s victory at Choggia is probably just delaying the inevitable outcome. Much of their sailors come from Dalmatia and the Greek territories. Mainland Italy itself is also fairly devastated. They will not be able to recover their fleet in terms of personnel. Their finances probably aren’t good either. They have lost massive amounts of territory, already spent a huge sum of treasure, and large parts of their remaining lands are devastated. Their trade is probably severely restricted due to the war as well.

I tottaly agree that Venice is on its edge both in manpower and in financing. That said Sicily isn't quite better. Mainly cause the subvertio generalis (?) isn't popular all around and could cause troubles. Also although they can build more galleys and man them it requires time and money to do so and till then Venice has the upper hand in the sea which is critical. Also with the war in land for Venice over they could move mercs to Crete in force and without major resistance to get it back before the Sicilians could rebuild once more their fleet. The sad thing for the Sicilians is that Genoa is occupied with internal issues.

To be honest a truce with Venice is the best solution for now. Let them keep Modon, Koron, Euboea and Candia only and prepare for round two with Genoa later when you have sorted all the regency stuff. When Venice is out you kick the "Crusaders" out of the Aegean once more, raid Cyprus just for good measure and then deal with Ioannes in Constantinople.

 

[HunterX]

To be honest a truce with Venice is the best solution for now. Let them keep Modon, Koron, Euboea and Candia only and prepare for round two with Genoa later when you have sorted all the regency stuff. When Venice is out you kick the "Crusaders" out of the Aegean once more, raid Cyprus just for good measure and then deal with Ioannes in Constantinople.

Why should Murad be content to let this play out without say besieging Thessaloniki?

 

[Avrorrange]

=

Well I get your point. I argue that the newly wed could make a power grab firstly cause Theodore II is a baby and secondly and most importantly cause I like intrigue. They may wait till they become adults to do so as Ioannes will have the backing of his house and maybe even some other Italiote families. Though what I expect is a clash with Philanthopenos clan for the catepanate of Hellas. As royals now the Griphons could push for better positions now it is up to the regency and who will participate in it to see the power struggle.

If they tried that, they probably just get curbstomped by Adrienne the Elder and Agnes.

Now on the regency part. We haven't talked about it a lot. I mean Andrianne the matriarch , Agnes the basilomitor (I mean king's mother in greeklish) the Catepanate of Hellas are given. Now who else? Chrysaphis the navy's admiral? Buas? Gryphon the father of the groom (I don't recall his name)? All of them? What about representatives from the local parliaments? I would like to see some clashes inside the regency for personal reasons as until now all work for the best of the realm which is great but some of them would see other decisions as best for the future.


I tottaly agree that Venice is on its edge both in manpower and in financing. That said Sicily isn't quite better. Mainly cause the subvertio generalis (?) isn't popular all around and could cause troubles. Also although they can build more galleys and man them it requires time and money to do so and till then Venice has the upper hand in the sea which is critical. Also with the war in land for Venice over they could move mercs to Crete in force and without major resistance to get it back before the Sicilians could rebuild once more their fleet. The sad thing for the Sicilians is that Genoa is occupied with internal issues.

To be honest a truce with Venice is the best solution for now. Let them keep Modon, Koron, Euboea and Candia only and prepare for round two with Genoa later when you have sorted all the regency stuff. When Venice is out you kick the "Crusaders" out of the Aegean once more, raid Cyprus just for good measure and then deal with Ioannes in Constantinople.

The finances could be found for a price. Whether it be more concessions, some land grants etc. The problem is whether the rulers of the empire are willing to pay the price.

 

[Quinkana]

The finances could be found for a price. Whether it be more concessions, some land grants etc. The problem is whether the rulers of the empire are willing to pay the price.

Eh it depends on how stupid the Venetians are. If they attempt to kill off their competitors in Messina and co the parliament may allow the new empire to do whatever they need to beat the barbarians.

 

[Lascaris]

Naples, February 1367

A quartet of heavily laden galleys sailed away from Naples with Joanna I aboard. The triumphant Charles of Gravina would be properly crowned as Charles IV king of Sicily two weeks later. The Neapolitan war was over. It was leaving behind a fought over kingdom, with the local barons virtually independent, Abruzzo effectively its own state and the southern provinces of Basilicata, Terra di Bari and Terra di Otranto lost to the Sicilians. Charles IV even with Hungarian backing would have his work cut out for him.

Syracuse, February 14th, 1367

Theodore II was crowned basileus in the cathedral of Syracuse. The little boy, not even three years old yet, understood little of the ceremony of course. His mother did though and was not leaving anything to luck. Alexandros II is his will had made Agnes the regent of Theodore with Alexios Gryphon and Alexandros Philanthropenos as co-regents under her. Philanthropenos should not be much of a problem, he had been raised together with Alexandros II and had been a close friend of the late basileus and Agnes. Alexios just had his son married to Adrienne so should stay in line for the immediate future. Agnes did not fear her own daughter, thankfully the late Theodore and the elder Adrienne had made certain their family felt and act like a family which could not be said for all royal houses of Europe. As soon as the coronation was over the entire parliament, along with the army, navy and civil servants would give an oath of allegiance to Theodore and house Vatatzes.

Albania, February 1367

Ioannis Buas and Alexandros Philanthropenos could not be in Syracuse for the coronation of Theodore II. Instead they were leading an invasion of the Thopia domain in the middle of winter catching him off guard and defeating his hastily assembled army in the Aoos river. Thopia offered peace if he would recognize Sicilian control of Epirus would swiftly agree. With peace restored Alexandros would force march south to Preveza and sail away with most of the army while Buas remained behind to make sure Karl Thopia actually held to the peace terms.

Chios, March 1367

Peter I had had had to choose between paying his fleet or paying his army or paying his fleet, since Cypriot revenues would not suffice for both. He had made the conscious choice of paying for his army in order to press on the siege of Chios counting on his allies, particularly Venice to provide a fleet. It was a reasonable gambit. But Alexandros Philanthropenos had taken his chances and sailed out of Piraeus early in the season well ahead of his fellow Sicilians or for that matter the Venetians would sail out of Sicilian ports. His gamble had paid off when his squadron of 25 galleys had caught the Byzantine-Hospitaller squadron blockading Chios by surprise and crushed it destroying 8 out of its 13 ships. Philanthropenos had then landed 7,000 men in Chios and attacked Peter's army, which was down to 5,500 men. Peter would lose almost a third of his army against about a thousand Greeks before he could retreat south. But he would refuse Philanthropenos call to surrender hoping instead the Venetians would be coming to his relief.

Otranto, April 1367

The entire Venetian fleet of 45 galleys raided the villages around the fortress before moving further south to raid Calabria and the coast of Eastern Sicily. Sicilian cavalry and infantry would check the raiders while a Sicilian squadron of 22 galleys under Ioannis Gryphon-Maniakes tried to hinder the Venetians while sensibly avoiding battle with the much stronger Venetian squadron. The raids over Vettor Pisani would take 25 galleys east to Greece while the rest remained in Italian waters.

Chios, May 1367

The Sicilian fleet had avoided battle with Pisani's squadron, Pisani joined by the surviving Hospitaller ships had 30 galleys to Philanthropenos 22. But Pisani and Peter I had correctly surmised that renewing the attack on Chios was out of the question. Instead Peter's army had boarded the Venetia ships and fled south, Pisani not unsurprisingly would transport the surviving Cypriot army to Candia, where Peter would spend the rest of the year battling Kallergis soldiers. The Venetians and Cypriots would manage to secure several villages around Candia but the Greek hold on the rest of the island would remain secure.

Rome, October 1367

Urban V became the first pope to set foot in Rome in sixty years. Whether he would remain in Rome despite pressure from his French cardinals to return to Avignon remained to be seen.

Messina, November 1367

The beautiful woman, was clad in a seemingly plain black dress, it was made of local Sicilian silk of course. The only jewels she was wearing were a cross and her wedding ring. Behind her her six daughters were dressed in a similar fashion as was the little basileus.

"The reason I am standing before you and not my husband, is that Alexandros died serving his country. As his father and grandfather had before him. And he died because some people", she pointedly looked daggers at the representatives of Palermo, "were too miserly to give the country and my husbands the means to fight the war. "A war of choice they said. When the same parliament accepted the offer our Cretan brothers, who stand amongst you in this room today, to join the realm it was not a war of choice. It became a war of choice when sacrifices were to be made. But mistakes can be made by all of us, we are mere humans and to err is human. My question is are you going to repeat the same error again and let the death of your basileus go in vain? Will you continue to let the country fight this war with a hand tied behind its back?"

There was some grumbling particularly from the communes in Val di Mazzara and Basilicata but war taxes were voted in...

Constantinople, February 1368

The empire was effectively out of the Venetian Sicilian war. The loss of all three ships the previous year amounted to half the little navy Ioannis V had put together with Venetian funding. And now Ioannis had problems closer to home. The Ottomans had resumed the war with both the Bulgarians and the Byzantines and neither seemed to be able to put much of a resistance, against them. The desperate Ioannis would go to extreme measures and journey north by ship to the Danube and along the Danube to Hungary to seek help.

Candia, March 1368

Peter I of Cyprus looked in some distaste the 2,000 Turkish mercenaries the Venetians had brought into the island. But while tempted to act independently his defeat at Chios last year was a pointed reminder that he could not and should not do so. After all even though he had armed 4 galleys of his own this year and the knights 5 more both were entirely dependent on the Venetians at sea.

Chalkis, March 1368

The Sicilians were back in strength as Alexandros Philanthropenos led an army of 10,000 men and 25 galleys to besiege the city again.

Genoa, April 1368

Much tothe frustration of Alexios Gryphon, doge Gabriele Adorno was adamant. Genoa was in no position to join the war against Venice. Or so at least the doge claimed, if he was concerned over the extend of Sicilian influence in Eastern waters he did not let go. But Adorno was not in position to control his fractious subjects over taking Sicilian gold to serve as mercenaries. Gryphon would be back in Palermo with 11 Genoese galleys in tow contracted for a period of two years...

 

[Avrorrange]

@Lascaris Why not some kind of direct assault on Cyprus with a small force to force Peter out of the war?If their defense falls apart, you get Cyprus. If it doesn’t, it would create pressure for Peter to leave. I think his will and means to fight the war is declining. If he gets offered to be shipped back, would he keep fighting?

 

[Quinkana]

Snip

Hmm with Anges leading the regency and with Adrienne the elder being fine with things I think we'd see a stable regency happen and have them continue fighting the Venetians for now, especially since the regency has the subvertio generalis to play with. I think you could've forced them together using the belligerence of the Serene republic, but this works quite well too.

As Joanna leaves for her French possessions and the Hungarian Charles of Gravina (prob should be Charles IV due to Charles III dying early in otl) takes the throne, I do think that he'll probably lay off conquering the lands he lost to the Despotate and attempt to rebuild from the anarchy Naples went through. I'm not sure how successful it will though. He'd prob not have a lot of recourse as ppl would see him in a bad light, but on the other hand I think the people would just want some peace after the anarchy.

I hope we see a weird marriage for Joanna at this point. Despite having a few spouses she never had a child, and a bunch of Aragonese nobles beyond the king claiming to be the rightful claimant of the throne of Naples would be a cool thing to see.

 

[galileo-034]

Chalkis, March 1368

The Sicilians were back in strength as Alexandros Philanthropenos led an army of 10,000 men and 25 galleys to besiege the city again.

This time, I suppose he might want to capture the island of Euboea in a prelude to the new siege, to completely surround Negroponte.
Last time, the reasoning was that the capture of Chalk is would lead to that of the whole of Euboea, but since it did not quite work the first time, it might be worth revisiting that reasoning this time around.

 

[X Oristos]

quartet of heavily laden galleys sailed away from Naples with Joanna I aboard.

The galleys are heavy because Joanna took with her the remaining silverware ?

Joanna is still the countess of Provence, a not insignificant principality. The link between Provence and Naples is severed and Naples becomes even weaker. With Joanna in Provence, the chances of Otto von Brunswick-Grubenhagen are better than if she had stayed in Naples. If things go as in OTL, Otto will have a lot of influence in Montferrat and almost become the power behind the throne. In that case he will be a valuable ally for Joanna since Montferrat is bordering the last angevin holdings in southern Piedmont.

Abruzzo effectively its own state and the southern provinces of Basilicata, Terra di Bari and Terra di Otranto lost to the Sicilians.

I would expect Camponeschi to form a close relationship with Hungary and/or Sicily to sustain his autonomy from Naples. He could play the loyal bannerman to Louis, "I know you put Gravina on the throne but my loyalty stands with you, the true king" and the useful ally to the Regents in Syracuse. I think it is plausible to seek a royal marriage for his heir, to be seen as a true ruler of Abruzzo.

Charles IV even with Hungarian backing would have his work cut out for him.

On top of everything, Charles will have to deal with the Free Companies as well. Those brigands went after the weaker states and Naples in its current state of demographic collapse and decentralization is the most inviting target. Most of these Free Companies would have been ex-employees of Charles. He got the throne now and Louis won't be paying the salaries of thousands of mercenaries. Rome is in danger as well, worse than Avignon in the previous years. The brigand pestilence lasted a decade in France and caused a lot of damage. If anything, Charles IV is in a weaker position than the French.

What was the demographic impact of the long war on top of the plague?

With peace restored Alexandros would force march south to Preveza and sail away with most of the army while Buas remained behind to make sure Karl Thopia actually held to the peace terms.

Is the OTL Sanjak of Delvina included in Lascarid Epiros? What is its population?

At some point a year or two ago, I had tried to calculate the sipahi cavalry that the Sanjaks of Ioannina and Delvina could provide and I think I had calculated 2,000 men in total. I might be quite wrong though, I cannot find my notes.

while a Sicilian squadron of 22 galleys under Ioannis Gryphon-Maniakes tried to hinder the Venetians while sensibly avoiding battle with the much stronger Venetian squadron

There was some grumbling particularly from the communes in Val di Mazzara and Basilicata but war taxes were voted in...

ryphon would be back in Palermo with 11 Genoese galleys in tow contracted for a period of two years...

So, the Sicilian fleet was 22 galleys before the taxes were voted in. It is fair to assume that the Sicilians won't have spent all their coin on mercenaries since they have reserves of naval manpower. I would bet that the Apulians will be alarmed so they have an even greater motive to man and arm their galleys. So, the summer 1368 fleet will be 33 galleys plus the reserves.

This time, I suppose he might want to capture the island of Euboea in a prelude to the new siege, to completely surround Negroponte.
Last time, the reasoning was that the capture of Chalk is would lead to that of the whole of Euboea, but since it did not quite work the first time, it might be worth revisiting that reasoning this time around.

And 10,000 men is a big army. And he knows there is a venetian fleet in the Aegean, so he would be expecting some relief operation. With so many men, he doesn't need a fleet of his own to capture the city. He can built fortifications and blockade access to the city. The north channel is 300m wide beyond the city's walls. The southern channel where there is a modern bridge, it is 185m wide. If he builds earthworks to protect his men, catapults and crossbowmen on both sides can stop cold a galley fleet. Now he has enough men for such approach.

Peter I of Cyprus looked in some distaste the 2,000 Turkish mercenaries the Venetians had brought into the island. But while tempted to act independently his defeat at Chios last year was a pointed reminder that he could not and should not do so. After all even though he had armed 4 galleys of his own this year and the knights 5 more both were entirely dependent on the Venetians at sea.

At this point, the Karamanids would have attacked Corycos on the cilician shore and with basically all the army and ships of Cyprus away, they would have captured it. That would be a major prestige blow to Peter. The garrison of Antalya will have mutinied as well and the Venetians might have picked up the tab and paid his garrison there. So, while the infidels are taking his outpost and showing that he cannot protect his subjects, he is forced to be effectively a mercenary captain fighting side by side with infidels.

If it is the same Peter as in OTL, then he is a proud and ambitious man. His pride can be seen in the negotiations after his Alexandrian Raid. He was also heavily invested in trade and in the negotiation with the Mamluks, a great deal of the terms involved trade regulation. He was man who sought wealth, be it from plunder or trade. While he is being paid by the Venetians, it is difficult to fathom how he is making money from raiding a few villages. And Rhodes belonged to the Hospitallers, so excessive plunder is unlikely.

Overall, Peter will be a profoundly unhappy man.

Mariano occupied the last pro-Aragonese strongholds, including Sassari in 1370, and at the same time he sent an embassy to Avignon, to ask the Pope to act as mediator in his " dispute" with Aragon ( with the support of illustrious figures of the time such as Catherine of Siena and various prelates ) even if technically the real balance in the conflict will be the Doria family, who are the second most important landowners in Sardinia ( after Mariano himself ) and control a large part of the eastern territories of the old Giudicato of Torres

I think it is plausible to see an independent Sardinia in TTL. After the Cretan War, it is in Sicily's interest to have a buffer between them and the Aragonese, so the Judges of Arborea can be natural allies.

 

[mrhistory]

Great and unique timeline!! Any chance of a map?

 

[pls don't ban me]

Genoa, April 1368

Much tothe frustration of Alexios Gryphon, doge Gabriele Adorno was adamant. Genoa was in no position to join the war against Venice. Or so at least the doge claimed, if he was concerned over the extend of Sicilian influence in Eastern waters he did not let go. But Adorno was not in position to control his fractious subjects over taking Sicilian gold to serve as mercenaries. Gryphon would be back in Palermo with 11 Genoese galleys in tow contracted for a period of two years...

I just want to point out, you sent a guy named Gryphon to Genoa.
either you did not realized or you did but thank for the meme.

 

[pls don't ban me]

Great and unique timeline!! Any chance of a map?

there is one made recently, here you go

 

[galileo-034]

So, the Sicilian fleet was 22 galleys before the taxes were voted in. It is fair to assume that the Sicilians won't have spent all their coin on mercenaries since they have reserves of naval manpower. I would bet that the Apulians will be alarmed so they have an even greater motive to man and arm their galleys. So, the summer 1368 fleet will be 33 galleys plus the reserves.

The question is, are those 22 under GM different from the 22 mentionned at Chios under Philantropenos ? The same number, but it could be a coincidence.
If so, we get 33 galleys against the 20 left behind by Pisani (45 raiding Terra di Otranto minus 25 leaving for Greece). Adding the 11 Genoese galleys to G-M squadron tips the balance in Italian waters back to the Lascarids, barely two years after Chioggia... And that's not counting the additional galleys and crews that the war taxes are going to add to this number.
GM doesn't need to actually threaten Venice again, but the perspective of it would be enough to get Pisani back in the Adriatic and denude the Hospitalers and Peter from adequate naval support, ie leaving Philantropenos' squadron enough room to interdict the Aegean.
As you pointed out, with Euboea controlled, the approaches to Negropont can be interdicted by land based artillery, so Philantropenos can focus on blockading Candia instead, which is the central hub between Negropont to its north, the Dodecanese and Cyprus to its east/northeast, Methone to its west.

 

[pls don't ban me]

The question is, are those 22 under GM different from the 22 mentionned at Chios under Philantropenos ? The same number, but it could be a coincidence.
If so, we get 33 galleys against the 20 left behind by Pisani (45 raiding Terra di Otranto minus 25 leaving for Greece). Adding the 11 Genoese galleys to G-M squadron tips the balance in Italian waters back to the Lascarids, barely two years after Chioggia... And that's not counting the additional galleys and crews that the war taxes are going to add to this number.
GM doesn't need to actually threaten Venice again, but the perspective of it would be enough to get Pisani back in the Adriatic and denude the Hospitalers and Peter from adequate naval support, ie leaving Philantropenos' squadron enough room to interdict the Aegean.
As you pointed out, with Euboea controlled, the approaches to Negropont can be interdicted by land based artillery, so Philantropenos can focus on blockading Candia instead, which is the central hub between Negropont to its north, the Dodecanese and Cyprus to its east/northeast, Methone to its west.

i mean, Genoa is really what could tip the balance.
if a treaty could me made…

Historically speaking, Genoa ( while sometimes doing ever worse stuff than Venice like the exploit of Trebisonda empire) is more open to compromise.
maybe an agreement regarding Crete could be made, like giving them access to Candia like Galata. this way the island stays in the hands of Sicily and Genoa is both ally and trade partner. by giving them a trade hub in the biggest island of the Aegean sea their concerns about the trade there should be quelled.

 

[DracoLazarus]

I just want to point out, you sent a guy named Gryphon to Genoa.
either you did not realized or you did but thank for the meme.

What is the meme ?

 

[goumaister]

i mean, Genoa is really what could tip the balance.
if a treaty could me made…

Historically speaking, Genoa ( while sometimes doing ever worse stuff than Venice like the exploit of Trebisonda empire) is more open to compromise.
maybe an agreement regarding Crete could be made, like giving them access to Candia like Galata. this way the island stays in the hands of Sicily and Genoa is both ally and trade partner. by giving them a trade hub in the biggest island of the Aegean sea their concerns about the trade there should be quelled.

Well it leave all of the Aegean and the Candia enclave at the mercy of the Sicilians. I don't know if it would be prudent to trust a foreign power that much even if until now you are good allies.

 

[X Oristos]

What is the meme ?

Genoa CFC - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org