The Four Directions (teaser, of sorts)

In what would be the center of a great continent-spanning empire somewhen, 500 years in the future and many steps sideways, a priest resplendent in feathered robes ascended the stone steps of the greatest of many earthen mounds to greet the dawn.

To the east he looked, his face turned to the rising sun like the sunflowers that grew around the fields. He sang thanks to the Sun for rising and shining forth upon his people and giving rise to the bounty which fed them. He cast a handful of red ochre into the gentle breeze.

To the south he looked, across the hivelike cluster of dwellings that housed 300,000 servants of the Sun. He prayed to Muskrat for the ability to dive deep for wisdom and that the Serpent might stay contained within the Earth. He cast black charcoal dust and turned his back to the Sun.

To the west he looked, across the great muddy river that served as a highway across half a continent and lifeblood for millions. He gave thanks to Red Hawk and Thunder Boy for defeating the Serpent and teaching the People how to live. He cast yellow cornmeal which fell and speckled his sandaled feet.

To the north he looked, across bottomland fields richly pimpled with mounds of maize, beans, and squash, the gifts of the Sun to his people. He prayed to the Thunderbirds in their lodge in the north. He gave thanks for the rain and for the power they generously shared with the People. He prayed that they would give strength to the warriors of the People as they faced the many enemies who envied their prosperity and power. He cast a final handful of azurite powder as the earliest rays began to warm the damp earth, and once again descended the steps.

In the four corners of the great country that would never be in his world, four men with more earthly concerns made greeting not to the Four Directions but to other men who the tides of history had cast in their path.

To the East, Quintus Fufius Dubnorus stepped from his ship onto a sandy shore to present an ultimatum to the dreadful VamBandu.

To the South, Chicomecozcacuauhtli, a pochteca of Mexico, met to trade with the Tuetinini Dineh in the dusty hills on the edge of their waterless plains.

To the West, Kwagwichad of the Squalliabsch approached a fort of the Aluutiiq on the fir-clad bluff above teeming mudflats.

To the North, the cousins Sigurd Ragnarsson and Einar Jaybeak paddled their birch canoe through a wilderness of rocks and trees, making their way to a thin column of smoke which could only barely be distinguished from the mist of the boggy forest.

A continent which in another time would have been freshly despoiled and depopulated by the sudden arrival of outsiders instead stands as part of the world, however distant the great empires of the Old World might have been from the stepped mounds on the Mississippi. Even so, the thousand nations of the New World face challenges as the Old World continues to encroach, both directly with traders and conquerers, and indirectly with horses, plagues, and iron.
 
This is a sort of reboot of a TL I've had elements of in my head since 2003-2004, before I even came to to AH.com. The most obvious inspiration is Westfall from Poul Anderson's Eutopia. The VamBandu are the only element of this snippet that shouldn't be immediately recognizable, and I owe most of the inspiration for their creation to @Haggis.

I was hoping for questions and guessing before I post the short anecdotes about the four meetings. One challenge is to guess the POD. It's something I've posted a thread about before.
 
I want to say the PoD is related to migrations from Aridoamerica.

I looked up Aztec at the mention of serpents staying in the ground and sun worshippers and looked at the range in which the muskrat inhabited.

Sounds like more peoples in Aridoamerica went northeast instead of south.

That's my guess.

Oh, and the guy with the latin name is very interesting. So, Roman culture is stronger in this tl, but why...
Wondering if the POD is on the muskrat since there's something that changed asia, europe and north america....

Hm...

Looks at Inuits.
 
I want to say the PoD is related to migrations from Aridoamerica.

I looked up Aztec at the mention of serpents staying in the ground and sun worshippers and looked at the range in which the muskrat inhabited.

Sounds like more peoples in Aridoamerica went northeast instead of south.

That's my guess.

Oh, and the guy with the latin name is very interesting. So, Roman culture is stronger in this tl, but why...
Wondering if the POD is on the muskrat since there's something that changed asia, europe and north america....

Hm...

Looks at Inuits.

I'm usually hesitant about linking Wikipedia articles, but this is a decent one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Ceremonial_Complex

I'll admit that the priest on his mound in the Midwest is just a narrative device for this chapter intended to tie the other elements of the TL together, but all the elements of his religion like the Four Directions and their colors are basically taken straight from OTL Native American mythology. The theme of cthonic horned serpents and thunder spirits with avian-themed cultural heroes, often twins, carving out the earth between is part of the Southeastern Complex. One theme that exists in a lot of North American myths is something diving into endless sea and bringing up mud, most often a duck or a turtle but occasionally a muskrat. He's a Mississippian Native American, though not the Mississippian culture of our world.

Here are some small things that may intrigue you further before I post the next parts (I should have posted these details in the first post and made the teaser tease a bit more):

1. The VamBandu are by descent mostly Sub-Saharan African and Quintus is visiting them in the vicinity of Cape Fear.

2. The Tuetinini are horse nomads like the Mongols and superficially very similar. Their meeting is taking place somewhere near the Pecos River.

3. The Aluutiiq and Yupik aren't "Inuit", that term is reserved for the Arctic branch of the Eskimo-Aleut language family. Hence why "Eskimo" is often used in Alaska, which has both Yupik and Inuit, and "Inuit" in Canada. Aluutiiq are more Pacific Northwest in culture than Arctic, and in this timeline they appear even more so, having just completed a bloody war of conquest against the Tlingit. Not that I don't have some ideas for the Inuit proper, but everything in this prologue takes place within the boundaries of the continental U.S.

4. Sigurd and Einar's presence in the Boundary Waters isn't connected in any way with a successful Vinland.
 
(snip) 4. Sigurd and Einar's presence in the Boundary Waters isn't connected in any way with a successful Vinland.

Well, there goes my hope of successful Vinland :confused:. Perhaps a Norse colonization of OTL (Canadian) Northwest Territory then? Or, perhaps more bizarrely, a scenario in which the Nordic culture became prevalent in Russia and they spread across Siberia, navigating along the White and Barents Sea to reach the Pacific American coast?

I must ask, Burton, do you intent to go on to a full-fledged TL or its just a vignette for now? Anyway, I'll be here on next installments :biggrin:
 
Well, there goes my hope of successful Vinland :confused:. Perhaps a Norse colonization of OTL (Canadian) Northwest Territory then? Or, perhaps more bizarrely, a scenario in which the Nordic culture became prevalent in Russia and they spread across Siberia, navigating along the White and Barents Sea to reach the Pacific American coast?

I must ask, Burton, do you intent to go on to a full-fledged TL or its just a vignette for now? Anyway, I'll be here on next installments :biggrin:

Norse people can settle Canada from Greenland without it being related to Vinland.

And I'm not sure how I want to lay this out. I'm sort of sketching the TL out as I go but don't think I'm going to be able to detail the full history between the POD and 1500 AD very well. I think I'm going to write some stuff set in the Americas for a bit and be open to retconning.
 
Norse people can settle Canada from Greenland without it being related to Vinland.

And I'm not sure how I want to lay this out. I'm sort of sketching the TL out as I go but don't think I'm going to be able to detail the full history between the POD and 1500 AD very well. I think I'm going to write some stuff set in the Americas for a bit and be open to retconning.

Iceland and Greenland to Newfoundland to the St Lawrence and from there the Great Lakes isn't that hard of a progression during the Warm Period. Finding the Grand Banks would make it very worthwhile for them too.
 
Wow, Rome-wank, sub-Saharan Africa-wank, Inuit/PNW native-wank, together with a Mississippian-esque culture? Very cool.
 
I'm usually hesitant about linking Wikipedia articles, but this is a decent one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Ceremonial_Complex

I'll admit that the priest on his mound in the Midwest is just a narrative device for this chapter intended to tie the other elements of the TL together, but all the elements of his religion like the Four Directions and their colors are basically taken straight from OTL Native American mythology. The theme of cthonic horned serpents and thunder spirits with avian-themed cultural heroes, often twins, carving out the earth between is part of the Southeastern Complex. One theme that exists in a lot of North American myths is something diving into endless sea and bringing up mud, most often a duck or a turtle but occasionally a muskrat. He's a Mississippian Native American, though not the Mississippian culture of our world.

Here are some small things that may intrigue you further before I post the next parts (I should have posted these details in the first post and made the teaser tease a bit more):

1. The VamBandu are by descent mostly Sub-Saharan African and Quintus is visiting them in the vicinity of Cape Fear.

2. The Tuetinini are horse nomads like the Mongols and superficially very similar. Their meeting is taking place somewhere near the Pecos River.

3. The Aluutiiq and Yupik aren't "Inuit", that term is reserved for the Arctic branch of the Eskimo-Aleut language family. Hence why "Eskimo" is often used in Alaska, which has both Yupik and Inuit, and "Inuit" in Canada. Aluutiiq are more Pacific Northwest in culture than Arctic, and in this timeline they appear even more so, having just completed a bloody war of conquest against the Tlingit. Not that I don't have some ideas for the Inuit proper, but everything in this prologue takes place within the boundaries of the continental U.S.

4. Sigurd and Einar's presence in the Boundary Waters isn't connected in any way with a successful Vinland.

Very interesting. I'm originally from Natchez, Mississippi and Emerald Mound is such a fun place to go and walk around, or have picnics, or fly kites, or just hang out. It's one of those places that you look at and, yeah, it's just a big pile of dirt, but then you start thinking about what it would have looked like 500 years ago and how much engineering it would have taken to build with the technology of the time and period, and everything else. It's a really amazing place and culture that you don't hear a whole lot about, even in TLs. So looking forward to what happens.
 
Very interesting. I'm originally from Natchez, Mississippi and Emerald Mound is such a fun place to go and walk around, or have picnics, or fly kites, or just hang out. It's one of those places that you look at and, yeah, it's just a big pile of dirt, but then you start thinking about what it would have looked like 500 years ago and how much engineering it would have taken to build with the technology of the time and period, and everything else. It's a really amazing place and culture that you don't hear a whole lot about, even in TLs. So looking forward to what happens.

Having been to Cahokia, I have a serious respect for the Mississippians. Monks' Mound (the biggest one) is so impressive I thought it was fake when I first saw it. And then you realise that all over the Midwest and Southeast, there's so many mounds like these. I'm most interested in their sudden disappearance and the emergence of the native cultures encountered by the French and later English. The chronology of the region from 1400 - 1700 seems hard to trace, and its no wonder people resorted to psuedohistorical explanations like "Indians couldn't build those, it must've been X group!"
 
Iceland and Greenland to Newfoundland to the St Lawrence and from there the Great Lakes isn't that hard of a progression during the Warm Period. Finding the Grand Banks would make it very worthwhile for them too.

One of the things that needs to be considered in a TL with a POD this far back is climate. Climate science is very complicated, but there's a rough correlation between population levels and warmth. So there was actually a Classical Warm Period that ended in the early AD centuries, possibly triggering the Migration Period. The Little Ice Age was possibly triggered by the Mongol depopulation of Eurasia plus the Black Death. If Roman dominated Europe is more stable, maybe the Classical and Medieval Warm Periods run together.

Wow, Rome-wank, sub-Saharan Africa-wank, Inuit/PNW native-wank, together with a Mississippian-esque culture? Very cool.

I don't like the word "wank", really. These Romans are quite different than OTL Romans. Rome is obviously more enduring but that doesn't mean it's stronger in every way. All that the other parts of the world need is a little technological boost that can give them larger and more stable populations. The right trading network in the right place can do that.

Very interesting. I'm originally from Natchez, Mississippi and Emerald Mound is such a fun place to go and walk around, or have picnics, or fly kites, or just hang out. It's one of those places that you look at and, yeah, it's just a big pile of dirt, but then you start thinking about what it would have looked like 500 years ago and how much engineering it would have taken to build with the technology of the time and period, and everything else. It's a really amazing place and culture that you don't hear a whole lot about, even in TLs. So looking forward to what happens.

Having been to Cahokia, I have a serious respect for the Mississippians. Monks' Mound (the biggest one) is so impressive I thought it was fake when I first saw it. And then you realise that all over the Midwest and Southeast, there's so many mounds like these. I'm most interested in their sudden disappearance and the emergence of the native cultures encountered by the French and later English. The chronology of the region from 1400 - 1700 seems hard to trace, and its no wonder people resorted to psuedohistorical explanations like "Indians couldn't build those, it must've been X group!"

What's interesting about the Mississippians is that while we know so little about their polities and the history of them, we know a ton about their culture, since most Mississippian sites can very roughly be linked to contemporary Native groups. Cahokia, for example, or at least the area around it, was probably Dhigehan-speaking. While the Cahokians may not have been ancestors of the Omaha, Ponca, Kansa, Osage, and Quapaw, if you can link a lot of Cahokian artifacts to those groups and their beliefs and practices. And if you want to write an alternate history Cahokia you wouldn't be too out of line grafting Osage kinship, language, and religion over it.

I'm not an AH purist and have no problem including things from OTL over 1000 years from the POD. One important thing to do in AH is keep things recognizable and accessible.

I was close!

There definitely were ties between Meso/Aridoamerica and the Mississippi cultural complex. More stable climate and agriculture will make those ties stronger.
 
One of the things that needs to be considered in a TL with a POD this far back is climate. Climate science is very complicated, but there's a rough correlation between population levels and warmth. So there was actually a Classical Warm Period that ended in the early AD centuries, possibly triggering the Migration Period. The Little Ice Age was possibly triggered by the Mongol depopulation of Eurasia plus the Black Death. If Roman dominated Europe is more stable, maybe the Classical and Medieval Warm Periods run together.

Interesting idea. I am familiar (from Brian Fagan) about the likely correlation of the ending of the Warm Period around 300 AD and the Migration Period.

Don't forget about the nasty megadrought that seemed to have shattered the Anazazi culture.
 
Interesting idea. I am familiar (from Brian Fagan) about the likely correlation of the ending of the Warm Period around 300 AD and the Migration Period.

Don't forget about the nasty megadrought that seemed to have shattered the Anazazi culture.

That, I think, was correlated with the Little Ice Age, as was the collapse of Classic Mississippian culture. Climate change and the plagues of the Columbian Exchange were a one-two punch that introduced a lot of discontinuity into the Mississippian culture.

There was also the collapse of the Hopewell and associated cultures with the cooling period that triggered the Eurasian Migration Period. If there hadn't been a discontinuity there, the development of the Mississippian culture would have been very different. The Hopewell/Middle Woodland culture area was concentrated around the Ohio, since they relied on foods from the Eastern Agricultural Complex. Mexican crops didn't get introduced to North America until the Hopewell culture had already collapsed. We still probably would have seen a shift of the center of gravity to the Southeast and lower Mississippi with the introduction of corn and beans, but possibly better developed trade networks and higher population throughout North America.
 
One of the things that needs to be considered in a TL with a POD this far back is climate. Climate science is very complicated, but there's a rough correlation between population levels and warmth. So there was actually a Classical Warm Period that ended in the early AD centuries, possibly triggering the Migration Period. The Little Ice Age was possibly triggered by the Mongol depopulation of Eurasia plus the Black Death. If Roman dominated Europe is more stable, maybe the Classical and Medieval Warm Periods run together.

That's a theory, but there's also the several VEI 6-level eruptions in the early 2nd millennium to account for as well.



I don't like the word "wank", really. These Romans are quite different than OTL Romans. Rome is obviously more enduring but that doesn't mean it's stronger in every way. All that the other parts of the world need is a little technological boost that can give them larger and more stable populations. The right trading network in the right place can do that.

Understandable.

What's interesting about the Mississippians is that while we know so little about their polities and the history of them, we know a ton about their culture, since most Mississippian sites can very roughly be linked to contemporary Native groups. Cahokia, for example, or at least the area around it, was probably Dhigehan-speaking. While the Cahokians may not have been ancestors of the Omaha, Ponca, Kansa, Osage, and Quapaw, if you can link a lot of Cahokian artifacts to those groups and their beliefs and practices. And if you want to write an alternate history Cahokia you wouldn't be too out of line grafting Osage kinship, language, and religion over it.

I'm not an AH purist and have no problem including things from OTL over 1000 years from the POD. One important thing to do in AH is keep things recognizable and accessible.

Of course, every native group wants to claim descent from the Mississippians. They might as well be right for all we know.

A Dhegihan language spoken widely, certainly, but for all we know, using Quapaw instead of Osage would be about as accurate.

There's also the language isolates like those of the Natchez, Tunica, and Yuchi. I wonder if there were more, but I suppose that if any other died out before noted by Europeans, the language was probably never spoken by a prominent/powerful group to begin with.

There definitely were ties between Meso/Aridoamerica and the Mississippi cultural complex. More stable climate and agriculture will make those ties stronger.

Definitely, and stronger ties would no doubt have intriguing effects on the Mississippians.

That, I think, was correlated with the Little Ice Age, as was the collapse of Classic Mississippian culture. Climate change and the plagues of the Columbian Exchange were a one-two punch that introduced a lot of discontinuity into the Mississippian culture.

There was also the collapse of the Hopewell and associated cultures with the cooling period that triggered the Eurasian Migration Period. If there hadn't been a discontinuity there, the development of the Mississippian culture would have been very different. The Hopewell/Middle Woodland culture area was concentrated around the Ohio, since they relied on foods from the Eastern Agricultural Complex. Mexican crops didn't get introduced to North America until the Hopewell culture had already collapsed. We still probably would have seen a shift of the center of gravity to the Southeast and lower Mississippi with the introduction of corn and beans, but possibly better developed trade networks and higher population throughout North America.

True.

Europeans (de Soto) showed up in a "dark age" for Mississippian culture, and made it even worse. But Cahokia was basically abandoned before the Little Ice Age, and its neighbours (in East St. Louis and modern St. Louis) had a major population decline also before the Little Ice Age. It's noteworthy that the Midwest/Great Plains tended to have droughts lasting decades or even centuries before the Little Ice Age, with the decades-long drought in the 16th century being the final major drought on that level,
 
That's a theory, but there's also the several VEI 6-level eruptions in the early 2nd millennium to account for as well.

Understandable.

Of course, every native group wants to claim descent from the Mississippians. They might as well be right for all we know.

A Dhegihan language spoken widely, certainly, but for all we know, using Quapaw instead of Osage would be about as accurate.

There's also the language isolates like those of the Natchez, Tunica, and Yuchi. I wonder if there were more, but I suppose that if any other died out before noted by Europeans, the language was probably never spoken by a prominent/powerful group to begin with.

Definitely, and stronger ties would no doubt have intriguing effects on the Mississippians.

True.

Europeans (de Soto) showed up in a "dark age" for Mississippian culture, and made it even worse. But Cahokia was basically abandoned before the Little Ice Age, and its neighbours (in East St. Louis and modern St. Louis) had a major population decline also before the Little Ice Age. It's noteworthy that the Midwest/Great Plains tended to have droughts lasting decades or even centuries before the Little Ice Age, with the decades-long drought in the 16th century being the final major drought on that level,

Glottochronology and so on are far from conclusive, but we can pretty well tie existing groups to most of the Late Mississippian and contemporary North American sites. Except the Fremont people. I haven't heard a good theory about who their descendants are.

There were a lot of factors besides climate destabilizing North America. Ultimately, the crop package just wasn't resilient enough and fairly minor changes could result in disaster and total collapse.
 
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