I mean i did say "for personal reasons" too, I didn't claim "Britain didn't want to help with the finances" (which actually was a factor) was a complete list of all the problems that Leopold had with accepting the Greek throne
WI: Belgium didn't exist
- Thread starter EasternRomanEmpire
- Start date
This seems about right to me too. Britain isn't going to give anything it considers important to the Dutch just because they stayed united with the southerners. Britain had no problems pushing the united Netherlands around in 1824 with the treaty that legalized Singapore. Natal with its port near the Cape was considered important OTL and would stay British. The gold and diamonds in the interior later in the century would be even more important and kept off limits to foreign powers.
On the other hand, Borneo might well become Dutch in its entirety and the "White Rajah" would have to take his dreams elsewhere.
France offered informally to buy Cuba and the Philippines too and the Belgian offers was suspected by some (mostly British) to be just a cover for the French. Foreign states were trying to take advantage of the desperate position of the Spanish Government during and after the First Carlist War but even in such dire straits Spain wouldn't bite.
Were there any other nearby cities that could've gotten the Luxembourg treatment and ended up its own independent city-state?
I don't understand what you mean with the "Luxemburg treatment" Luxemburg ended up being Luxemburg by a historical coincidence that I can't see repeated anywhere else in a similar way.
The Netherlands staying stronger would mean they take more part in international politics and would be a power considered when the other powers were making decisions, they would probably keep the Gold Coast and expand Boreo more. As for the Boers a more threatening Netherlands may persuade the British to treat them better and if the Dutch are ambitious they could try to take the Boer states while they were independent and act as their protectors, though this would cause conflict with the British maybe they could do it with a foriegn backer.
As for WW1 if it still happened the schlieffen plan wouldn't really be plausible considering a sfar stronger country occupying that area, the Germans might even try to intice the Dutch into joining them, this probably wouldn't happen since the Dutch would know the British and even the Japanese could easily threaten their important Indonesia colony. Though if the Dutch did join their navy combined with the German could maybe be enough to threaten the British and their armies combined would be enough to overwhelm the French
As for WW1 if it still happened the schlieffen plan wouldn't really be plausible considering a sfar stronger country occupying that area, the Germans might even try to intice the Dutch into joining them, this probably wouldn't happen since the Dutch would know the British and even the Japanese could easily threaten their important Indonesia colony. Though if the Dutch did join their navy combined with the German could maybe be enough to threaten the British and their armies combined would be enough to overwhelm the French
It would be suicidal for the Netherlands to try rivaling the Brits in South Africa or anywhere else, even with a Backer. The UK were industrially and economically the better in the whole World, their navy was literally invincible due to their numerical and qualitative strength and their diplomatic network assured them to fight whoever was their enemy with the most of the world supporting them.
It's not sure at all Germany would form as OTL, because Bismarck wouldn't have been able to promise Napoleon III parts of Belgium and Luxemburg, thus France could have sided with Austria in the Austro-Prussian War. If an OTL-like WWI happens ITTL, Germany might stay defensive on the Western front against France. They might also ally with the Netherlands (they were many pro-german in the Netherlands OTL and many pro-French in Belgium OTL, so the protestant Dutch elites could try to get closer to Germany to counter the francophiles in the southern provinces ITTL) and thus the UK could stay neutral. ITTL, the Central Powers could easily win.
If Belgium did not exist I can see the Dutch gaining the Dutch speaking part of Belgium while the Romance speaking part of Belgium may be honestly given to Liechtenstein.
Finally, a reasonable scenario! Long live the Liechtenstein Empire! Someone should really do a TL about this.
Yeah, Liechtenstein is really a overlooked country in this kind of scenario.
That's a shame overlooking such a powerful country. Liechtenstein is the only nation to have won a battle with more soldiers at the end than at the beginning!
I know. There also could be a chance that Alsace Lorraine could be a independent state or given to Liechtenstein.
Knowing Liechtenstein's incredible diplomatic and military influence, Alsace Lorrain would surely be integrated to their new European Empire, IMO!
I do think that it might be possible that Dutch policymaking would be changed if the Dutch state was intrinsically different from OTL, as a territorially larger state with a much larger population and much more industry. This would be a quantitative change of such a nature that it would be qualitative; the United Netherlands would approximate the stature of a European Great Powers in a way that the Netherlands and Belgium did not OTL.
This does not mean, mind, that there would automatically be an interest in direct competition with the UK.
I would largely agree. With the southern Netherlands, including but not limited to Francophone Walloon areas, being an obvious target for French irredentism, the United Netherlands would have an obvious interest in alliances that would protect against France.
What could France offer? There is the Piedmontese scenario, I suppose, the weaker neighbour making territorial concessions to arrange in exchange for French support in realizing their goals elsewhere, but what would this involve? The Walloon provinces, especially given their industry, are relatively much more important to the United Netherlands than Nice and Savoy were to Piedmont. Beyond that, what is the United Netherlands supposed to cover? North German hegemony?
I didn't mean the Netherlands wouldn't play a significantly bigger role ITTL, I just thought them trying to rival the Brits in the midst of this British hegemonic century that is the 19th would go against every Dutch interest because there was no way to win such a fight.
And for the Franco-Dutch relationship I completely agree with you, and an alliance with a) Prussia (for territorial defence) and b) the UK (to protect their colonies and their naval and economic interests) would be the best for the Dutch. For those reasons, I think the UK and Germany (if it exists ITTL) wouldn't be Rivals but would get closer thanks to their shared good relations with the Netherlands.
All this sounds like it would make Anglo-French relations notably worse.
True. I think France would ally with Austria to counter Prussia, and if Austria is defeated, then the French would Switch to Russia. Like OTL, the UK wouldn't intervene much in continental Europe, even less in a continental war, unless the Netherlands's very existence is threatened (or the risk of a break up of the Europeans balance of power as usual with the Brits, but it wouldn't be a problem ITTL until late).
That feels quite reminiscent of the alignments of the 1750s. France-Austria-Russia vs Prussia-Britain.
You're right, except now Prussia and the UK are also allied with the Netherlands. However the Austro-Russian relations could get more tensed (it depends if the Crimean War happens, if not then they could stay allies for quite some years). To sum up, a big continental war over the German Unification is possible for the 1860-1870's. As to guess what side would win the War, it's near 50/50 to me, Prussia and the Netherlands would be really outnumbered by France, Russia and Austria. Yet the Prussian army was the better in Europe at the time, so no clear advantage for anyone IMO.
I wonder if the butterflies might have ramifications elsewhere. Like, does Denmark end up differently?