I think Judaism/yahwehism would be henotheistic and see the other gods as gods, evil or not that would be another concern, which would be very interesting in general.
Samsara: An Antiquity Greco-Buddhist Timeline
- Thread starter Sarthak
- Start date
Really?
Not trying to start a religious debate or anything of the sorts, just genuine curiosity, but I've always heard that the very core of Buddhism as a philosophy was the elimination of ego as a way to transcend the Samsara(the cycle of Reincarnation and/or Suffering depending on how you interpret it) into what we know as Nirvana(wheter Nirvana means a form of paradisical existence, god/buddhahood, oneness with the universe or simply non-existence depending on the buddhist school of thought you follow) with dettachment from any and all earthly desires being an inherent requirement for that as not only the ego derivates from it but also it is what moves the Samsara - Desire and Karma
I may be wrong of course, which is why I'm asking, so by all means enlighten me if you desire to
(Pun very much intended
)
If your personal sect's end goal is to become a Boddhisattva, then yes, the elimination of desire is necessary. However, if it is sainthood, then no, the elimination of desire is not necessary, only control is. Depends per sectReally?
Not trying to start a religious debate or anything of the sorts, just genuine curiosity, but I've always heard that the very core of Buddhism as a philosophy was the elimination of ego as a way to transcend the Samsara(the cycle of Reincarnation and/or Suffering depending on how you interpret it) into what we know as Nirvana(wheter Nirvana means a form of paradisical existence, god/buddhahood, oneness with the universe or simply non-existence depending on the buddhist school of thought you follow) with dettachment from any and all earthly desires being an inherent requirement for that as not only the ego derivates from it but also it is what moves the Samsara - Desire and Karma
I may be wrong of course, which is why I'm asking, so by all means enlighten me if you desire to
(Pun very much intended
Thanks for the explanation!
I didnt know there was something like sainthood in buddhism, I thought everyone's endgoal was to become a Boddhisattva
Though I guess the variation according to sect applies to a lot of religions
I think the Mahayana type makes sense for it's a lot for anyone to eliminate desires in general, and saying that 'I can reach nirvana bc I have control over myself' would be accepted by a lot of ppl.
Am interested why did the Celts adopt Buddhism while Slavs and Germanics proved immune to its propagation?
I wonder if there going to be new religions made beside yahwehism?
I also wonder if the Norse religion survives or merge with the Germanic's.
Greco-Buddhist Worldbuilding #5: To Kill a God - An Ancient Greco-Buddhist Folk Tale
A/N: In the loving memory of Round 5 in Record of Ragnarok.
Editor's Note: Most historians agree that Polystheos is an early Hellenic depiction of the Hindu God Shiva. Due to the interconnection between India and Hellas increasing in the aftermath of the Buddhization of Hellas after Alexander the Great, a cross-pollination of religion across barriers seems to have taken place.
Zalmoxis
Poetic Tradition
Editor's Note: Though the folk tale was originally transmitted orally, during the reign of Thyrexes V of the Galatians, the story was written down and later great poems about this God-slaying poem were made. One of the earliest that modern archeologists have uncovered is written below.
Sing, Muse, of the days of yore,
When Amyntas III, Autokrátōr of Macedon, rose,
Two centuries past the great Alexander's fall,
A tale unfolded in Hellas, a saga to enthrall.
A new power, Dacian League, rose in the north,
Under Zyraxes the Giant, they conquered forth.
Many tribes, confederations, and kingdoms bowed,
Their might echoed, as the northern realms they plowed.
For decades they remained in mystery's shroud,
Untouched by Macedonians, their language veiled in cloud.
The Scythians, indomitable, knew little of their might,
A power rising, hidden in the eternal night.
But fate, relentless, spurred a change,
In Amyntas III, greed began to estrange.
Breaking peace, Dacians and Macedonians at war,
Delphi's Oracle warned, yet Amyntas sought more.
His armies crossed Thrace into Dacian land,
A year of silence, a darkening strand.
Thracians' tales reached Macedonia's ear,
Of supernatural might, a God to instill fear.
Heracles V, brother of the fallen king,
Raised an army, vast, as Gaia's trembling wing.
Northward it marched, silence shrouding its fate,
Divine power struck, sealing Heracles' estate.
Matrega IV, serene ascendant, took the throne,
Unconcerned with vengeance, yet not alone.
Two armies rendered, Macedonia weakened,
Geopolitical vultures circling, their thirst deepened.
Calm, Matrega summoned Thracian tribesmen near,
Seeking wisdom of the Dacians, without fear.
Wondrous tales unfolded of Zalmoxis, the God,
Pious Dacians, in His name, they trod.
Matrega journeyed to the Great River's side,
Observed the Dacians, in secrets did confide.
The High Priestess warned of Zalmoxis's might,
A contradiction, a puzzle in divine light.
To defeat, invoke a deity, a contradiction true,
The Egeiro trembled, Boddo's wisdom it knew.
Despair gripped Matrega, Macedonian kin enslaved,
A courtier offered hope, a deity to be braved.
To India's lands, where divinity thrived,
Polystheos, the Great God, in legends derived.
Matrega sent a hundred, a quest to unfold,
A wish granted, Polystheos's name to be told.
Dark-skinned deity, a third eye foretelling doom,
Matrega pleaded for Dacians' impending gloom.
Controlled by the wish, Polystheos agreed,
No innocent Dacian shall suffer in this deed.
The third eye opened, Polystheos descended,
Challenged Zalmoxis, a battle splendid.
Immortal Zalmoxis knew his fate,
Yet in the cosmic struggle, he met his weight.
Frightened tribes fled as Gods clashed on high,
Zalmoxis fell, Polystheos's triumph in the sky.
Cast down, Zalmoxis slept in eternal repose,
Attached to the earth, where his legacy grows.
A God had been killed, a seismic decree,
Zalmoxis's body, Zalmoxian Mountains, decree.
Matrega's army entered Dacia, victory sealed,
With the promise upheld, the innocent Dacians healed.
Amidst arrogance, tragedy, and cunning calm,
The shockwave reverberated a divine qualm.
In every corner of the world, the echo resounds,
A God had been killed, in ancient battlegrounds.
Polystheos
(Editor) In Popular Historiography:
The story of a God that stumped even the Egeiro and the Olympians and was felled by an unknown deity from the East is a popular folk tale in all of Hellas. It has been told for over two millennia with different variations. Today, most people attribute the unknown god nicknamed Polystheos to be the Hindu God Shiva, who does fit the description made in the ancient oral versions remarkably well. Even Hindu texts written after the time that deal with Shiva mention these verses in ancient Sanskrit:-
विध्वंसकः च पश्चिमं गतः।
तत्र सर्वविषमाणां विरुद्धं देवं हत्वा।
तत्र सः एकं ईश्वरं पातयित्वा सम्पूर्णं राष्ट्रं दिव्यदया इति दर्शितवान्।
दिव्यं प्रतिज्ञां कृत्वा गृहं प्रत्यागतवान् ।
In its basic terms, the verse, which comes from the Classical Shaivite Compilations which were compiled around 1600 years ago tell us that the destroyer went west and defeated a God due to a wish that he granted. Of course, the vague wording of 'west' leaves much to be desired for those of us interested in ancient historiography of the religions interacting with one another.
Nevertheless, this concludes my brief overview of the folk tale.
[1] Egeiro = Bodhisattva
[2] Boddo = Buddha
[3] Zalmoxian Mountains = Carpathian Mountains
To Kill God
An Ancient Greco-Buddhist Folk Tale
An Ancient Greco-Buddhist Folk Tale
Oral Tradition
Editor's Notes: The Oral tradition of this folktale has been widespread for many millennia. The oral retelling printed below is simply the most widespread and most well-told.
Editor's Notes: The Oral tradition of this folktale has been widespread for many millennia. The oral retelling printed below is simply the most widespread and most well-told.
Many, many years ago, when Autokrátōr Amyntas III came to power in the Second Macedonian Empire two centuries after the death of Alexander the Great, a new great power was knocking the barriers of the northern realms down in Hellas. This new power was that of the new Dacian League. Under Zyraxes the Giant, the Dacians had conquered and subjugated many neighboring tribes, confederations, kingdoms, and leagues.
But for decades this new power remained to the north, never communicating with the Macedonians and other Hellenic down south barring trade in the Black Sea coastal ports. Precious little was known about them. Even their language was a mystery to the civilized Hellenics and Persians who only heard their traders conversing with them in Greek or Persian. Even the indomitable Scythians knew precious little about this new power, and there was nothing that escaped their attention during this time. But this changed. In the fifth year of his reign, Amyntas III became greedy. He broke the peace that had once reigned between the Dacians and Macedonians. Against the wishes of the Oracle of Delphi and the High Priestess of the Temple of Nike-Theomaiarchon, Amyntas III's armies crossed the borders of Thrace and into Dacian territory.
For a year no news of Amyntas III and his entourage reached back to Macedonia. Thracians, who lived peacefully in the ungoverned territory between Dacia and Macedonia brought back tales of horror. Supernatural strength, otherworldly powers and a great God who defeated and tore apart Amyntas III and his army in one fell swoop were being murmured in the shadows. Spies sent to Dacia brought back horrified confirmations. Amyntas III was succeeded by his brother Heracles V, who sought the regency to protect his nephew (Amyntas III's son) from an underage succession. Heracles V sought revenge for his brother's death and the rendering of an entire army and raised another army. This army, numbering so large that even Gaia herself quaked under its march veered north into Dacian territory. For another year silence enveloped Macedonia. Again, Thracian border men and tribesmen brought back tales of divine power that was brought down from the heavens to strike the invading army that destroyed Heracles V and his army underfoot. Panic began to set in.
Amyntas III's son, now of age, ascended to the throne of Macedonia as Autokrátōr Matrega IV. Matrega IV was largely unconcerned by the burden of avenging his father and uncle. But even a serene man as he was, he was concerned by the rendering of two large armies that had weakened Macedonia itself. So much so that other geopolitical vultures were smelling blood in the water like sharks in the ocean. Matrega IV decided to be calm about the endeavor and instead ordered Thracian tribesmen who lived near the Dacians to be brought before him. When said Tribesmen were brought forward, Matrega IV quietly asked them about how the Dacians had achieved what they had. The Thracians told wonderous tales about a God that the Dacians worshipped. Named Zalmoxis, the Dacians were a Henotheistic people, believing in the supremacy of Zalmoxis over every other divine deity. Uttering His name, the Dacians called down Zalmoxis's wrath upon the invading army to destroy Amyntas III and Heracles V. Matrega IV sought other opinions and personally traveled to the Great River that separated Dacia and Thracia. From the other bank, he observed the Dacians for as long as he could and the traders in the river affirmed the tales of Zalmoxis.
Shaken, Matrega IV returned home and went to the Temple of Nike - Theiomaiarchon and asked the High Priestess for her advice in defeating this God. The High Priestess warned Matrega IV that Zalmoxis was a contradiction. He was a Creator and Destroyer and a contradiction in the divine realm that stumped even other deities. To be brought down, only another contradiction could defeat Zalmoxis. Matrega IV would need to invoke a contradictory deity to defeat Zalmoxis. For even the Egeiro [1] feared this deity that rejected the wisdom of the Boddo [2], Matrega IV raised his eyes heavenward and despaired that he could not rescue the hundreds of Macedonian men who had survived the initial onslaught and had been taken slaves. Their wives, sisters, mothers, and families sent word asking for help every so often that Matrega IV's heart broke every time he read their pleading to save them. But a courtier in Matrega IV's court brought forward a solution. To the east, in the lands of India, where other divinity ruled, there lived another contradictory deity.
This courtier, whose ancestry hailed from that land, being descended from the legendary monk Calanus who brought the wisdom of the Boddo to Hellas, called this deity the Great Destroyer of the East. He called this deity Polystheos (πολύςθεός ), or the Great God. Wielding a trident like Poseidon and being a dancer even greater than the Terpsichore, this God destroyed and created worlds. Matrega IV, set in his task to rescue his countrymen and later avenge his father and uncle for his mother and aunt, sent a group of 100 soldiers and courtiers to India, following the old path to find this deity and bring him to Macedonia. Half a decade later, 62 of his original 100 returned. Their leader had tricked the deity into giving him one wish which the courtier transferred to Matrega IV. Matrega IV used the wish to invoke Polystheos's name and summoned the deity.
With His glistening dark skin and close-lidded third eye that spoke of destruction incarnate, Matrega IV pleaded with the deity to destroy the Dacians. Controlled by the wish, the Polystheos agreed on the condition that no innocent Dacian would be killed. Matrega IV accepted the condition. And lo and behold! The Polystheos's third eye opened and the Polystheos arrived on the banks of the Great River. There, he challenged Zalmoxis personally to death. Zalmoxis agreed to the contest, knowing very well that he was immortal and could not die. Frightened tribesmen fled as the two Gods fought in a battle that defied description. Zalmoxis was powerful, but in front of this unknown god nicknamed Polystheos, even he could not win. Polystheos cast down Zalmoxis from the heavens and decreed that Zalmoxis would sleep forever and become attached to the earth forever more. His work done, Polystheos returned to his mystical abode.
A God had been killed.
Zalmoxis's body would eventually become the Zalmoxian Mountains [3] and without their God to help them, Matrega IV's paltry army entered Dacia and brought the Dacian League to heel with Matrega IV adhering to his promise of sparing the innocent Dacians. Though many would focus on Amyntas III's arrogance, the tragedy of Heracles V, and the cunning calm of Matrega IV, there is only one real shockwave that was felt in every corner of the world.
A God had been killed.
Editor's Note: Most historians agree that Polystheos is an early Hellenic depiction of the Hindu God Shiva. Due to the interconnection between India and Hellas increasing in the aftermath of the Buddhization of Hellas after Alexander the Great, a cross-pollination of religion across barriers seems to have taken place.
Zalmoxis
Poetic Tradition
Editor's Note: Though the folk tale was originally transmitted orally, during the reign of Thyrexes V of the Galatians, the story was written down and later great poems about this God-slaying poem were made. One of the earliest that modern archeologists have uncovered is written below.
Sing, Muse, of the days of yore,
When Amyntas III, Autokrátōr of Macedon, rose,
Two centuries past the great Alexander's fall,
A tale unfolded in Hellas, a saga to enthrall.
A new power, Dacian League, rose in the north,
Under Zyraxes the Giant, they conquered forth.
Many tribes, confederations, and kingdoms bowed,
Their might echoed, as the northern realms they plowed.
For decades they remained in mystery's shroud,
Untouched by Macedonians, their language veiled in cloud.
The Scythians, indomitable, knew little of their might,
A power rising, hidden in the eternal night.
But fate, relentless, spurred a change,
In Amyntas III, greed began to estrange.
Breaking peace, Dacians and Macedonians at war,
Delphi's Oracle warned, yet Amyntas sought more.
His armies crossed Thrace into Dacian land,
A year of silence, a darkening strand.
Thracians' tales reached Macedonia's ear,
Of supernatural might, a God to instill fear.
Heracles V, brother of the fallen king,
Raised an army, vast, as Gaia's trembling wing.
Northward it marched, silence shrouding its fate,
Divine power struck, sealing Heracles' estate.
Matrega IV, serene ascendant, took the throne,
Unconcerned with vengeance, yet not alone.
Two armies rendered, Macedonia weakened,
Geopolitical vultures circling, their thirst deepened.
Calm, Matrega summoned Thracian tribesmen near,
Seeking wisdom of the Dacians, without fear.
Wondrous tales unfolded of Zalmoxis, the God,
Pious Dacians, in His name, they trod.
Matrega journeyed to the Great River's side,
Observed the Dacians, in secrets did confide.
The High Priestess warned of Zalmoxis's might,
A contradiction, a puzzle in divine light.
To defeat, invoke a deity, a contradiction true,
The Egeiro trembled, Boddo's wisdom it knew.
Despair gripped Matrega, Macedonian kin enslaved,
A courtier offered hope, a deity to be braved.
To India's lands, where divinity thrived,
Polystheos, the Great God, in legends derived.
Matrega sent a hundred, a quest to unfold,
A wish granted, Polystheos's name to be told.
Dark-skinned deity, a third eye foretelling doom,
Matrega pleaded for Dacians' impending gloom.
Controlled by the wish, Polystheos agreed,
No innocent Dacian shall suffer in this deed.
The third eye opened, Polystheos descended,
Challenged Zalmoxis, a battle splendid.
Immortal Zalmoxis knew his fate,
Yet in the cosmic struggle, he met his weight.
Frightened tribes fled as Gods clashed on high,
Zalmoxis fell, Polystheos's triumph in the sky.
Cast down, Zalmoxis slept in eternal repose,
Attached to the earth, where his legacy grows.
A God had been killed, a seismic decree,
Zalmoxis's body, Zalmoxian Mountains, decree.
Matrega's army entered Dacia, victory sealed,
With the promise upheld, the innocent Dacians healed.
Amidst arrogance, tragedy, and cunning calm,
The shockwave reverberated a divine qualm.
In every corner of the world, the echo resounds,
A God had been killed, in ancient battlegrounds.
Polystheos
(Editor) In Popular Historiography:
The story of a God that stumped even the Egeiro and the Olympians and was felled by an unknown deity from the East is a popular folk tale in all of Hellas. It has been told for over two millennia with different variations. Today, most people attribute the unknown god nicknamed Polystheos to be the Hindu God Shiva, who does fit the description made in the ancient oral versions remarkably well. Even Hindu texts written after the time that deal with Shiva mention these verses in ancient Sanskrit:-
विध्वंसकः च पश्चिमं गतः।
तत्र सर्वविषमाणां विरुद्धं देवं हत्वा।
तत्र सः एकं ईश्वरं पातयित्वा सम्पूर्णं राष्ट्रं दिव्यदया इति दर्शितवान्।
दिव्यं प्रतिज्ञां कृत्वा गृहं प्रत्यागतवान् ।
In its basic terms, the verse, which comes from the Classical Shaivite Compilations which were compiled around 1600 years ago tell us that the destroyer went west and defeated a God due to a wish that he granted. Of course, the vague wording of 'west' leaves much to be desired for those of us interested in ancient historiography of the religions interacting with one another.
Nevertheless, this concludes my brief overview of the folk tale.
[1] Egeiro = Bodhisattva
[2] Boddo = Buddha
[3] Zalmoxian Mountains = Carpathian Mountains
Last edited:
It's just a theory. After all. Even Tengri would fit the descriptions put in. It's ambiguous especially since a proto-figure to Tengri was said to be worshipped in the Hindu Kush during this time. It's most likely Shiva, but could also be Proto-Tengri or even the Scythian Kolaksaya
I wonder what the implications of this are for Judaic thought and the Orphic mysteries.
Well, even for Henotheistic Jews, killing a God is totally blasphemous
To be fair, there are already books in the Hebrew Bible that parallel slaying and judging the gods. One of the Psalms (Psalm 82) has Adonai look upon the gods of the nations and find them wanting, decreeing their downfall.