Many pieces of kit were made OTL not due to them being the best but due to them being what the factories could make now rather than in six months time. If UK needs tanks now, then these will be made until Valiant/Victor production is sufficient. You will however probably find that a lot of the more specialised AFV's will use the hull to mop up production, just like happened to Crusaders OTL.
Sir John Valentine Carden Survives. Part 2.
- Thread starter allanpcameron
- Start date
Another good update. To be honest, when he was given the opinion that the Churchill tank was a dud, he was probably think to himself and probably later privately confide to some close associates when showing around the tank:
That being said, the Japanese higher command would probably be worried about any reports a presence of any British tanks in a frontline.
Would be interesting to see where would the Churchill tanks be allocated to. Although it is so far in the future, perhaps the tank could potentially had an interesting deployment in conflicts after the war.
That being said, the Japanese higher command would probably be worried about any reports a presence of any British tanks in a frontline.
Would be interesting to see where would the Churchill tanks be allocated to. Although it is so far in the future, perhaps the tank could potentially had an interesting deployment in conflicts after the war.
The USA qualifies anyway as an ex colony. Originally an English colony not British but it was British before it became an ex colony. I recall Yasser Arafat floated the idea of Palestine joining the Commonwealth at one time; but I digress.
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Honestly something like black prince like with maybe a 25 pounder could be a useful idea ? Or its too big for now ?
Its use should be just a infantry tank wichs main role is to make attacking less manpower chewing and honestly thats why it could make sense and almost not fight other tanks could be the point of them.And thats why they might have a future for abit if the british dont get nuclear addicted.
Or as said , send them in bunches to the eastern forces if you want a easy use of them . Cause 1000 churchills would be a truly horrible idea for the japanese to fight honestly and introduce horrific butterflies . Even if british own forces arent massive , the indians and australians could use them atleast at a minimum.
Its use should be just a infantry tank wichs main role is to make attacking less manpower chewing and honestly thats why it could make sense and almost not fight other tanks could be the point of them.And thats why they might have a future for abit if the british dont get nuclear addicted.
Or as said , send them in bunches to the eastern forces if you want a easy use of them . Cause 1000 churchills would be a truly horrible idea for the japanese to fight honestly and introduce horrific butterflies . Even if british own forces arent massive , the indians and australians could use them atleast at a minimum.
Derek Pullem
Donor
Post war they served briefly as a stop gap APC - around 150 were converted carrying 8 infantry and 2 crew. Maybe someone gets the idea earlier ITTL
A StuG III -esk assault gun? 25lber or 3.7AA gun in a casemate in place of the turret for direct/indirect fire support (or an early Tortoise)?
They had a chance and messed it up with the A22D Gun carrier.
A.22D, Churchill Gun Carrier - Tank Encyclopedia
The Churchill Gun Carrier was an SPG version of the Churchill fitted with a 76 mm AA gun. 50 were produced, but they never saw combat.
tanks-encyclopedia.com
Here's a bit about the Churchill NA 75 conversions
Churchill NA 75
Churchill NA75 (200) Churchill IVs with 6-pdr guns replaced (under Operation Whitehot ) by guns and mantlets from destroyed or scrapped Sherman tanks, fitted to Churchill IV cast turrets....
www.nevingtonwarmuseum.com
Derek Pullem
Donor
Jumbuck is filling that role really. If you wanted a proper self propelled artillery piece then its more likely to be 25 pdr - 17 or 20 pdr are more TD. Something like the Sexton using a Churchill chassis
'You're taking artillery fire? From where?!... Yes, I'm aware there are hills there, are they behind the hills?... Well there must be a road or track somewhere for them to get on top of... Straight up the side?! How do they get the ammunition up there?... Oh, they've got trailers. Right, best pull back then before they take the parking brakes off and roll over your position.'
[While I admit to making the Churchill's hill-climbing ability something of a meme, it's still funny to me]
If there are better alternatives in the future, then a relatively limited production run (compared to OTL) of Churchill tanks may be a decent choice for Specialized vehicles/AVRE/Hobarts "Funnies"? I really can not see British deploying it to SEA, considering the limitations of infrastructure, the fact that Matildas and Valiants (and Australian Jumbuck) are more then adequate for that theatre of operations.
Is there a way to build up sponsons above the Churchill's tracks so as to fit a wider turret ring? (Like what the Sherman has)
You would have to raise the entire hull for that, and create a very weird layout where the hull already has "sponsons" inside the track and sponsons above them. It is weight inefficient, but yes in theory it could work.
A22's (and A20's for that matter) envelopping track is a holdover from when the tank was supposed to have no turret so that a similar unditching gear as WW1 tanks could be used. It was not necessary anymore once a turret was added but the developpers didn't have the time/the idea to switch over to a new configuration; something that happened between TOG 1 with envelopping tracks and TOG 2 with conventional tracks and (huge) sponsons. With conventional tracks, the Churchill could have used a normal hull layout with sponsons over the tracks, incidentally more akin to the Matilda II. Which is one of the reasons why I always imagined the concept of a Matilda II extrapolated to Churchill requirements (extra armor and hull gunner, engine and turret would already fit in Matilda hull).
The sponsons would certainly allow an increase in turret ring diameter, and thus would add room at turret ring level and above it. The diameter of the turret basket would remain constrained by the width of the hull between the tracks, so since the legs of the turret crew would have to sit inside it you would still be capped regarding the maximum bulk of the weapon. The picture below shows how the turret ring is about as wide as the hull between the tracks, but does not really extend inside the sponsons.
Regarding Churchill itself, it doesn't really make all that much sense in the context of the TL since it is completely inferior design-wise to a Valiant or Victor and both of those are already in sufficient production that a rushed tank developped later wouldn't be very useful. But I don't mind.
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22 February 1942. Ping River, Thailand.
allanpcameron
Donor
22 February 1942. Ping River, Thailand.
When they set off from Rangoon by lighter to Moulmein, B Squadron of 4th Duke of Cambridge's Own Hodson's Horse was equipped with a mixture of Marmon-Harrington Mark III Armoured Cars and Indian Pattern armoured carriers and universal carriers.
C Squadron were following in sixteen ‘reconditioned’ A10 Cobras and two Mk VIB light tanks. Before they left Iraq all the tanks had been stripped down to the base metal, and everything that could be, was replaced. The RASC men estimated the tanks’ lifespan would be extended, if they weren’t too badly handled. The crews laughed at the memory when the tanks were being shaken about coming over some pretty terrible country.
A Squadron (twelve A13 Mark IV Cruisers and four light tanks) and the Regimental HQ (two Vickers MkVI light tanks and two armoured carriers with extra radio equipment) were the tail of the Regiment’s movement.
The road over from the Burmese border had been difficult with so much of 10th Indian Division trying to travel at best speed over very poor trails. By the time the Regiment had reached the battlefield, three armoured cars, four A10s, six A13s and two MkVI light tanks had been left behind due to breakdowns or falling prey to other hazards.
The two Brigades of 11th African Division had done a good job of securing the western side of the river Ping, while awaiting the 10th Indian Division to come up. The arrival of the Japanese 38th Division, the conquerors of Hong Kong, could have led to something of a stalemate. Instead, the Japanese had taken the initiative and crossed the river further upstream then hit the flank of 10th Indian Division as it moved up to support the African Brigades. The battle so far had consisted in sudden bloody encounters as one side often blundered into the other side.
As far as the British commanders could ascertain, one Japanese Regiment (the equivalent of a British Brigade) had made the crossing and been engaged. There had been points where Japanese forces had cut the road, and their roadblocks had to be overwhelmed and then cleared so that communications could be maintained between the various Brigades.
The presence of the two Indian Armoured Regiments, (the other was 13th Duke of Connaught's Own Lancers) even although considered weak in normal times, gave the Indian Infantry Brigades an edge over their Japanese rivals.
When they set off from Rangoon by lighter to Moulmein, B Squadron of 4th Duke of Cambridge's Own Hodson's Horse was equipped with a mixture of Marmon-Harrington Mark III Armoured Cars and Indian Pattern armoured carriers and universal carriers.
C Squadron were following in sixteen ‘reconditioned’ A10 Cobras and two Mk VIB light tanks. Before they left Iraq all the tanks had been stripped down to the base metal, and everything that could be, was replaced. The RASC men estimated the tanks’ lifespan would be extended, if they weren’t too badly handled. The crews laughed at the memory when the tanks were being shaken about coming over some pretty terrible country.
A Squadron (twelve A13 Mark IV Cruisers and four light tanks) and the Regimental HQ (two Vickers MkVI light tanks and two armoured carriers with extra radio equipment) were the tail of the Regiment’s movement.
The road over from the Burmese border had been difficult with so much of 10th Indian Division trying to travel at best speed over very poor trails. By the time the Regiment had reached the battlefield, three armoured cars, four A10s, six A13s and two MkVI light tanks had been left behind due to breakdowns or falling prey to other hazards.
The two Brigades of 11th African Division had done a good job of securing the western side of the river Ping, while awaiting the 10th Indian Division to come up. The arrival of the Japanese 38th Division, the conquerors of Hong Kong, could have led to something of a stalemate. Instead, the Japanese had taken the initiative and crossed the river further upstream then hit the flank of 10th Indian Division as it moved up to support the African Brigades. The battle so far had consisted in sudden bloody encounters as one side often blundered into the other side.
As far as the British commanders could ascertain, one Japanese Regiment (the equivalent of a British Brigade) had made the crossing and been engaged. There had been points where Japanese forces had cut the road, and their roadblocks had to be overwhelmed and then cleared so that communications could be maintained between the various Brigades.
The presence of the two Indian Armoured Regiments, (the other was 13th Duke of Connaught's Own Lancers) even although considered weak in normal times, gave the Indian Infantry Brigades an edge over their Japanese rivals.